Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. You are listening to another episode of the All Things Private Practice podcast. Make sure to like, download, subscribe, and follow so that you can get weekly episodes.

I am joined today by a very good friend, a local Asheville therapist, coach, freelance writer, and Enneagram teacher, Monica Leblanc. She sees clients in her boutique therapy practice who want more connected relationships with themselves and their dear ones. She uses a combination of parts work, internal family systems, the Enneagram, and dynamic attachment repatterning experience or DARE to help recovering people pleasers alchemize their plan, and purpose, and meaning, and create alignment in their choices.

She's also the co-owner, along with Elizabeth Gillette of HELD, an integrative attachment collective coaching program and retreat host. I'm not going to read anymore.

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah, yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: Can't do it, can't do it. But Monica's awesome. We are recording this on a Saturday because Monica messaged me a bunch of ideas this morning and last night. And I thought, "Man, okay, let's make this happen."

And we're going to talk about how loving the past versions of ourselves allow us to be more present in our day-to-day. I know I botched what you gave me, but that's kind of my takeaway from it.

And also, we're going to talk about some neurodivergence stuff, how that kind of interweaves into that topic because Monica, you just got a late-in-life diagnosis of ADHD. And I think when we're talking about loving past versions of ourselves so we can be more present in our day-to-day, like ADHD thrown in the mix, there's a big conversation there and that's a huge topic.

So, one, I want to just say thanks for coming on, thanks for being willing to be vulnerable and share your story. I know I botched what you wanted me to say. So, can you tell the audience a little bit more about what I was talking about?

MONICA LEBLANC: You did so great. You did so great. And thank you so much for-

PATRICK CASALE: Sure, sure.

MONICA LEBLANC: …thanks for being willing to have this conversation with me.

So, basically, I think there are past versions of us that, past parts, I would say, in my therapy with folks that we have feelings about, right? Like, we think they're bad, or we think they were naive, or they were dumb, or they could have, should have, would have done something better and different.

PATRICK CASALE: Sure.

MONICA LEBLANC: And the parts that are shaming, those parts that are upset, right, are keeping us from welcoming in our current identity in all of its complexity. So, I have an identity post-diagnosis that I'm stepping into. And I have an identity pre-diagnosis that I'm working on loving and having more compassion for.

PATRICK CASALE: For sure.

MONICA LEBLANC: And my previous versions, my past parts pre-diagnosis really need the compassion and the awareness of this current version of me.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, absolutely. We were talking a little bit off-screen about the grief relief process that I often talk about with late-in-life autism, ADHD diagnoses because for so many of us, right? Like, we've gone through life questioning so many things. Mainly, the biggest question tends to be like, what's wrong with me? And you're seeking these answers. And it's so overwhelming. And it's so painful. And it's so alienating and lonely. And you try all the things, right? Like, I did this therapy, I did this therapy to this, I did a this, I tried medication, tried mindfulness, tried being more present, tried doing all the activities, being more active. And you're just like, "Nothing works."

And I think that you can fall into this place of like deep, dark despair, hopelessness, that this is just destined to be the rest of your life, to walk through life always kind of feeling like on the outside, thinking about why you can't truly embrace the experience or understand your own experience. And I think that, like, questioning the why behind things is really important for neurodivergent people.

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah, I think that, for me, I went through phases of attaching the what's wrong with me to different modalities or explanations of what's wrong with me, right? Like, I have the self-preservation Enneagram 2 pattern which is the most "child-like" Enneagram pattern of all the 27 different types.

And so, for a while there I was like, "Oh, okay. Like, I just can't get my shit together because I have this pattern." And it felt like kind of grinding the gears to try and make that behavior be different, even though I was working on having self-compassion. And then, right, like I tend to embody the disorganized attachment style, right? And, like, folks who embody disorganized attachment also really struggle with executive functioning, and like figuring things out, and distress tolerance, and rejection sensitivity.

So, like, there were all these things that I would be like, "Oh, awareness and awareness and awareness." But there wasn't anything that actually landed in the application realm for me to where I could actually start to make some progress and embody a more adult kind of version of myself.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I love that because there's a lot to pick apart there. And first of all, I want to just say that when I first moved to Asheville, back in 2011, I did a group Enneagram training with my nonprofit that I worked at. And everyone there pegged me as a 2 because I was such a people pleaser, because I think, now looking back, it was just autistic masking. Like, people-pleasing is a big part of masking, right?

So, like, if I can be of service, if I can say all the yeses, if I can do all the things, the attention is not on me and I don't have to be perceived. So, I'm not a 2, I'm far from it. And, you know, as I become more confident in myself and learnt to set better boundaries, I'm like, "Oh, I definitely am not this person whatsoever."

You're laughing because you and I have had this conversation and you know me. Yeah, absolutely not, it's not a thing.

But the thing that really draws me into what you're saying is like trying all the modalities, and like, trying to see where it lands, and like resonating with some of it, but it's not fully encapsulating the experience. And you kind of leave like, okay, that hit close to home. It can be applicable, but it's really not it. And you kind of have a sense of like, it's just not the answer. And then, all of a sudden, fast forward, X amount of years, for you, I don't know how many years it's been since you did the DARE trainings that you talk about in your bio, for me it's been like seven, all of a sudden, you're like, "Oh, it's my neurology. Like, it's the way my neurodevelopmental conditions have risen, and presented themselves, and shown themselves to be the contributing factors."

I think, when you start to land on that with a diagnosis, whether it's self-diagnosis, and I just want to say that for our listeners, like, I'm a big advocate for self-diagnosis or an official diagnosis from a neuro-psych, or a therapist, or whoever, it almost, like, flips the script. Like, it completely shifts the lens and the perspective. It doesn't change who you are. It certainly changes how you see the world, though.

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah, absolutely. Like, I think that I was trying all of these things, and it felt like kind of pushing a rock uphill, right? Like I was, you know, trying to be aware of these patterns, trying to love myself and secure attachment myself into becoming the version of myself I thought I wanted to be. And it turns out that I actually needed chemical assistance to make those things work. And so, now, the work that I'm doing on myself and in my business is like so much filled with like clarity, and like, availability and openness, and I can have a clear thought. And that is so useful for moving forward in my business and in my impact in the world.

PATRICK CASALE: And in your personal life. Like, it impacts everything. And again, I want to say this too to everyone listening because I know we have a lot of neurodivergent listeners, or people questioning their neurodivergence. I'm not going to say, "Go get medicated." Because I'm not a medical professional. But I want to try to combat and reduce the stigma of medication, especially, for our brains, where the chemicals, and the hormones, and the neurology, and the neurons are just firing differently.

And absolutely amazing how the shift can happen so quickly, where you're like, "Oh, this is what it's like to focus. Like, this is what it's like to be able to have my executive functioning actually work a little bit." It's really wild because you can feel like a brand-new human.

It sounds like some of your experiences, I remember sitting in a coffee shop with you a couple weeks ago being like, "You should listen on my podcast Monica." Like subtly hinting at the fact that, like, maybe there's more here than meets the eye with this, like, constant feeling of like, "I can't get out of my own way. I can't figure it out. I feel really murky. I feel really cloudy. I don't feel clear on what I'm supposed to be doing." It sounds like, fast forward a month you feel kind of clear.

MONICA LEBLANC: I do. Yeah, I got some clarity, thanks to you. And also, like, I kind of started surveying people that have been close to me because I'm also… so here's another part of my new identity. I'm also a new mom. So, I'm barely a year postpartum, and I had been telling myself this story that I just had mom brain, right? Like, that's like a phrase in mom land is, "You have mom brain, right? You have mom fog."

So, I was like, "Okay, like, it's probably just me being a mom." So, I started talking to people that are close to me, and a lot of them, surprisingly, were like, "No, honey, you've always been like this."

PATRICK CASALE: How did that feel?

MONICA LEBLANC: I mean, so the first memory that came to mind was this friend that I had in grad school, and she used to call me Nado, which was a shortened version of tornado because I was just, like, kind of a hot mess and like just chaotically doing things, wearing one shoe, like finding my keys in the freezer. Like, I just was kind of a space cadet scatterbrain. But I'm a Pisces sun, double Virgo. So, Virgo moon and Virgo rising. So, I mask really well. Like, I have my shit together. And I'm really good at presenting that to people when I need to, right? Like right now.

PATRICK CASALE: Pressure's on.

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah, [CROSSTALK 00:12:37]-

PATRICK CASALE: …there's no pressure [CROSSTALK 00:12:38]-

MONICA LEBLANC: [INDISCERNIBLE 00:12:40].

PATRICK CASALE: So, let's pause on that. That's a great statement about masking. So, to the outside world, when the pressure is on you can show up. And like, I can almost fake it till I make it situation sometimes. Like, I'm just going to, like, take all of my mental energy to get through this experience.

On the other side, the other side of the coin for high maskers, especially, high masking women, trans and non-binary folk, and for our BIPOC folk listening, high masking looks very different than males who are high maskers. And it probably felt like chaos for people around you a lot of the time. But people in the outside world don't see the chaos, right? So, they don't really know how much Monica is struggling with executive functioning, with being able to have relationships, being able to, like, move through the world in a way that feels consistent. Like, nobody sees that chaos.

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah, it's been described to me that a lot of times masking, especially, for AFAB or female-identifying folks is that, like it's very duck on the water. Like, for those folks the inattention is, actually, and the chaos is so inside, it's not as much outside.

And I heard a description, I can't remember if it was on your podcast or a different one about what ADHD feels like. And the description was that it feels like you're in a car, and it's raining, and your windshield wipers work one out of every 10 times.

PATRICK CASALE: We didn't say that, but I wish we had.

MONICA LEBLANC: I mean, like, for me, it was like, "Oh my God. Like, that is exactly what it feels like in my brain."

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

MONICA LEBLANC: And now that I have this huge responsibility that requires so much focus and executive function, like I found myself and people asking me, like, "Why is this so difficult for you? Like, what's happening there?"

And I was asking myself, like, why is this so difficult for me to, like, figure out all of these moving pieces? And I think in certain relationships too, my masking ability helps me survive. Like, it helped me get through school. And in my family of origin, it was definitely really useful to look organized, and like I had my shit together, and like I didn't need anything.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, masking is a survival tool at its core. Like, the whole reason we mask, right, is so we don't draw attention to ourselves, so that we can assimilate, so that we can fit in, so we can belong. It's a lot easier to, like, use all of that mental energy, that executive functioning, that sensory energy to, like, mask in certain situations, so you don't have to answer certain questions, so you don't have to be the center of certain attention, so you don't have to be perceived.

But the other side, again, of the coin is, like, when you get back to your space, you're exhausted, you're depressed, you're anxious, you're overwhelmed, you don't understand why you have to move through the world like that. It doesn't feel authentic. But it is a survival mechanism in so many instances.

And I think for high maskers, especially, myself, included post-diagnosis, unpacking all of this internalized ableism, masking also prevents us sometimes from, like, connecting to our true sense of self because we're so used to, like, becoming who we think we're supposed to be. You almost start to question like, who am I? What do I enjoy doing? I ask myself that all the time.

Megan joked about it on our other podcast, Divergent Conversations, download, subscribe, share, she was like, "I just put in ChatGPT what do people do for hobbies? Because I don't know. Like, I don't know what people do."

And that's a really, real experience, like to have this feeling of like, I don't really know myself that well if I've gone through my entire life masking, whether it be intentional or whether it be a subconscious process that you've been doing just to keep yourself safe.

MONICA LEBLANC: So, the way that I frame that, and like, the way that I think about that is that I have my baby parts who are doing these masking behaviors and have done a really good job helping me survive certain situations. And it's not that I want them to stop doing their job, right? Because I need them sometimes, right? Next time I have to go to a really terrifying group interview or something, or, you know, if I'm ever like talking to Oprah, like, I need [INDISCERNIBLE 00:17:50].

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:17:51].

MONICA LEBLANC: That's right, yeah. I need those parts to show up and do their thing, right? However, sometimes when I'm not connected to what in IFS we would call self-energy, which is like the most divine, the most mature, the most loving and connected non-part of you, the core of you that nobody can touch or take away, if I'm not connected to that, and one of my parts is driving the bus, this is actually really interesting, then the part is making decisions from its wounding and from its survival strategy.

So, I actually started working as a therapist in the addictions field in 2009. Like, that's how long I've been in this mental health field.

PATRICK CASALE: You're super old.

MONICA LEBLANC: Like, yeah, it's wild. So, I got into the mental health field. I, like, went to grad school, became a therapist, got out, got my dream job at an inpatient facility that I loved. And I grew up as a therapist there. And like still holds a place in my heart.

But I remember this afternoon in 2015 where I realized that my wound picked my career. And I was like, "Fuck."

PATRICK CASALE: That lands, for sure. I'm sure that lands for a lot of you.

MONICA LEBLANC: I was like, "Oh, my God. This part of me made a huge life decision. What do I do now?"

PATRICK CASALE: I think about this a lot that… And I think this is what you're saying in a different phrase or terminology. Like, so many mental health and addictions therapists get into the field to heal themselves through the work that they do.

MONICA LEBLANC: I got into the field to heal my family.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah. I got in to heal my family.

PATRICK CASALE: And that's why we see like, such high rates of, it's a big statement, by the way, I just want to sit with that. Yeah, it's huge to acknowledge that, and, you know, put that out there.

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah, I mean, at the time when I had that realization I was pissed because I felt like, you know, "Oh my gosh, my whole life has been about healing these wounds and, like, about other people. And here I am, and I've made my whole career about healing this wound."

And I have a lot of love for that person on that day that made that realization. I'm so proud of her for like, being willing to be uncomfortable enough to see the truth of the choices that she had made. And obviously, I'm still a therapist, so, like, it didn't end up with me being like, you know, "Oh, God." Like, [CROSSTALK 00:21:00]-

PATRICK CASALE: But here's the thing, I'll highlight this-

MONICA LEBLANC: [CROSSTALK 00:21:02] milk a cow now.

PATRICK CASALE: …that person, that part decided I'm going to do a lot of my own healing, right? Because I know you have. You and I are friends. I've been in trainings with you. Like I know you've done a very deep dive. I do think that sometimes it splits. Like, a lot of the therapeutic community goes that way, and a lot of the therapeutic community goes the other way, where it ramps up in like co-dependency, people pleasing, poor boundary setting, inevitably burnout.

Guys, if you're listening, do the work. If you're in the field, do your own work. I just want to highlight that. Can't wait to write my book, Therapy Confidential, inspired by Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential, where I talk about the dark side of being a mental health therapist and the field itself. Wow, I just put that on air. That's going to hold me accountable.

MONICA LEBLANC: I'm so excited about that.

PATRICK CASALE: But in all reality, like I want to commend the shit out of you for that. It's really brave to just say it out loud. And I know you as a person, so I know that this is all really factual.

So, fast forwarding a little bit. You get through that, here we are in 2024, you're a new mom. You have a new-found ADHD diagnosis. What is life looking like these days in terms of like the work that you're doing, how you're showing up?

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah. So, a lot happened between… That was in 2015. So, like a lot has happened over the past 10 years or whatever. And I think that that realization, ultimately, led me to "I'm going to do my own healing instead of making my life about other people." That was like a moment where I got committed to making that self-energy that I talked about the primary, like, source of contact for how I made decisions in the world.

And so, I actually took this job. I think you might have met me when I was still in this job, but I took this job at a college and I hated it. And the reason why I did that is because I was like, again because I have ADHD. I was like, "Okay, I'm going to force myself into, like, a very structured and boundaried environment where I have to be professional." Because at the treatment center, like, we, like, basically, lived with our clients. Like, you know, my office is right next to my client's bedroom. So, it's very like informal relationship.

PATRICK CASALE: Sure.

MONICA LEBLANC: So, I took this, like, very structured job. And I was like, "I'm going to force myself into this corporate box."

PATRICK CASALE: Would you do it that way? Like, make that voice, make that face.

MONICA LEBLANC: I really did, yeah. Like, that's like the part of me-

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:25:03].

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah, that was like the part of me that was like, "You need structure and boundaries. And like, you need to go get a boring job. And like, you know…" Whatever I was trying to do.

So, I worked there for five months. I cried every day. I hated it. And I remember talking to my dad, who's an accountant. And I was like, "Why can't I just be one of those people that can just go to work-"

PATRICK CASALE: High five type of person, can be satisfied, can do the job, come home, eat dinner, watch TV, go to bed.

MONICA LEBLANC: Like, why can't I just be that person? Like, my life would be so much easier if I was just like that.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I agree.

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah, but I have a sparkle brain, so I did something insane, and I took out a huge loan, and I paid for rent on an office in advance for a year. And I was like, "I'm going to do this." And I worked on a farm so that I could have food. Like, I-

PATRICK CASALE: Which is a very ADHD thing, by the way. Like, this exact process is a very ADHD experience, yeah.

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah. I had, like, no idea what I was doing. I just was like, I know I can't do this anymore, and this isn't who I am, so I'm going to try and create something that mirrors who I am.

And like my business has been amazing. Like, I'm so grateful that I get to support myself doing the work that I love with the people that I love. I'm so privileged to be able to do that. And I have always called myself a hot mess business person because people were like "How are your books?" And I'm like, "What's that?"

PATRICK CASALE: What are books?

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah, they're like-

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:26:54] on this notepad next to my computer.

MONICA LEBLANC: Exactly. They're like, "How's your marketing?" I'm like, "Well."

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:27:01]-

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah, exactly-

PATRICK CASALE: …few times.

MONICA LEBLANC: I'm like, "Oh, I just show up, and I do my thing, and then things happen." And it turns out that, sure, that's been kind of giving me… it's been bare minimum… well, for me, it hasn't been bare minimum effort because honestly, just doing that unmedicated was a lot for me. But now I kind of understand my sparkle brain a little bit better I feel so much more open and prepared to contribute to the world in a bigger way. And I'm really excited about the opportunity to do that.

PATRICK CASALE: I love that. First and foremost, do I have a sparkle brain?

MONICA LEBLANC: I don't know. Do you? I know people call it neuro-spicy or whatever, but I've just been calling it my sparkle brain.

PATRICK CASALE: No, I think that's the very ADHD process of like, I'm going to create, I need boundaries, I need checks and balances. I need accountability. I'm going to take this job, right? Because that's going to offer me all of these things, which in turn creates so much chaos because the system cannot operate in the confines of like it feels like the walls are closing in. It feels like the Legend of the Hidden or the Hidden Temple Nickelodeon show. And ultimately-

MONICA LEBLANC: That part used to scare the shit out of me, by the way.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, it's horrifying. I mean that show is terrifying. Like, think about, like, these temple guards, like some random dudes and like, temple gear hanging around the corners, like. But yeah [CROSSTALK 00:28:35]-

MONICA LEBLANC: I needed to-

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:28:35] you have to force your way out. And that's what happened for me because I worked at community mental health for, you know, three years. I hated every second of every day. And I kept thinking like, "I'm going to have to change my career path." Because at the time, you don't know what you don't know, right? And I never foresaw myself sitting here doing the things that I'm doing.

But when I started to allow to take that risk, and again, I'm very privileged, similarly, you know, to be able to have taken the leap out of community mental health, to start my own practice. It was a horrifying leap. I definitely didn't think it was going to pay off, but I just realized, like, the more I supported my system, and what my system needed, like the flexibility, the ability to go to work at 11:00 AM because I'm not a morning person, the fact that we're podcasting at 9:30 in the morning is crazy to me, to work late if I want to work late, to not work at all, if I don't want to work at all, to have control.

I've realized so much, like, when we talk about values-aligned businesses, which I think are really important for autistic ADHDers, autistic and ADHD people, or neurodivergent people in general, values are super important. We are, like, really entrenched in what we believe in, typically.

My main value has always been like autonomy/freedom. And the autonomy and the freedom to make my own decisions, to approve my own PTO requests, to work late if I want, to cancel my day if I need to. I will never be able to put a price on that. It is too valuable to me. And I will never go back to a life or a world where I have Hidden Temple walls closing in on me all the time because I just cannot do it. My system needs freedom. It needs the ability to create. I wrote a fucking book in six hours last week because I gave myself space to support the way that my neurology works, to support the way that my brain works, and to start to truly embrace the way that I move through the world.

MONICA LEBLANC: So, just to reflect on that, Patrick, like what occurs to me is that you-

PATRICK CASALE: Have a sparkle brain.

MONICA LEBLANC: Well, also that, but you took, like, that self-energy and that kind of core of who you are, and you gave your parts, your inner children, your little young ones the accommodations that they always needed and never had. And now you get to be in relationship with them where you go, "Hey guys, I got you. Like, I promise that we are going to be okay and that I'm going to take care of us and that we will always have space to create, and to dream, and to rest, and to play, and to have joy in our lives." And I bet that that was huge for them and their healing.

PATRICK CASALE: Huge, absolutely huge. And I love the way you just framed that. I know that's a lot of what you do. So, you are the person to talk about that on this podcast. I mean, it's like a reparenting experience, right? It's like really having to reparent those parts for the parents that weren't able to do that for me. And for so long, I was so ashamed of those parts. I tried to keep them hidden. I really tried to keep myself small. I think it was a protective factor.

Every time I post, every time I publish, every time I create I'm like, "This is like self-advocacy at its truest form. But it's also supporting those parts, and saying, like, it's okay to be this weird, unfiltered version that I've always truly been." But I've really tried so hard to, like, minimize or dismiss, or like protect.

And I think, not just in life, but like in business too, the more we're able to authentically show up, the more likely we are to attract and repel based on how we show up. I have this constant question at retreats, like summits, retreats, all the things, people are so drawn to me, but I don't really like people that much. I mean, I like them, but like they exhaust me. I get very overwhelmed.

And I always ask my colleagues, my business partner in retreats and other things, like, "Why?" She's like, "Because you're not accessible, man." She's like, "The way you show up, you're authentic, but you are like, distant and disconnected from it. And people want what they can't have." And I'm like, "Oh, that feels weird, but I think that's true."

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah, yeah. This is like a TikTok concept, but there's that black cat golden retriever dynamic, right? That we like find each other, and then-

PATRICK CASALE: That would be my business partner and I. She's golden retriever energy all fucking day. Jenner, if you're listening to this, you know this is true.

MONICA LEBLANC: And you know, black cat. You know black cat [CROSSTALK 00:33:42]-

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

MONICA LEBLANC: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: You know, I'm just going to, like, show up when I want to show up. I'm going to leave when I want to leave. I'm not going to offer a whole lot at times. You know, I do what I need to do.

MONICA LEBLANC: You know, I had a black cat, and I tell you what, she started out as this, like, very quirky, like, she would, like, fall in weird places. She got stuck in a tuba once. Like, she was, like, a feral little wild creature. And if she chose you to be affectionate towards, you were like, "I am the king of the universe and God is smiling upon me." Right? And I think that can sometimes be true in those dynamics, is not, you know, both of them come from a wound, right? A wound like not being seen, not being loved, or not feeling worthy. And so, they're just two different reactions. They're two different parts that we probably all have both of those parts.

PATRICK CASALE: For sure.

MONICA LEBLANC: But for some of us, it's been more adaptive for that golden retriever part to buck up and drive the bus, right? And for others of us, like you, it's been more adaptive for little black kitty.

PATRICK CASALE: Oh, that's so fascinating, though. One, I want to just say, if I like you, I really like you, I'm the most loyal. Like, I'll go above and beyond, think about you all the time out, about in the world I'm like, "Ooh." My friend Cindy Miller could attest to this. I'm like, I'll send her, like, pictures of cats all over the world where I'm traveling. And she's like, "Are you sending these to me because you know I like cats." I'm like, "Yeah, I'm thinking about that association."

Black cat, gold retriever energy is very much my ADHD autistic part. So, like, I'm going to make some videos on that. Thank you for that idea. I'll give you the credits.

MONICA LEBLANC: Awesome.

PATRICK CASALE: But okay, I don't want to diverge too much right now, reining it back in for ourselves, with all of this being said, you have created something that you want to share and talk about. And I want to give you the space to do that. So, you have a retreat coming up. I want you to tell the audience about what it's about, why it's powerful, why it's worth visiting, and coming to.

MONICA LEBLANC: Okay, one place for me that has been a consistent way that I can be in contact with my secure attachment, with my self-energy, is to be immersed in the natural world and having the embodied experience of being cozy and safe.

And I also know that when someone wants to do their kind of personal growth work, doing it in community can amplify and catalyze those results so quickly. And I have been and had space held and created for me on some amazing weekends, life-changing places. Like, memories that I draw upon when I need that inner resource has been created in settings like this.

So, in September, Elizabeth and I are bringing HELD, which is our integrative attachment coaching program into real life. And we are hosting a weekend in Old Fort, North Carolina, which is just right outside of Asheville in the mountains, at these Creekside cabins.

And we have a chef coming, a professional chef that we've hired. And actually, his niche is postpartum moms. But he, like, loves to create food that nourishes people who have been through a big trauma. So, we were like, "Oh, yes, super [INDISCERNIBLE 00:37:43]."

PATRICK CASALE: Yes, yep.

MONICA LEBLANC: We've got some like movement happening. We got a yoga teacher that we're working with. And basically, what it is, is it's an entire weekend of doing the work but in a very invitational, slow, and sweet way. So, like, someone could come and be like, "I'll be at meals, but I can't commit to anything else." And we'd be like, "Great. So glad you're here." Right?

And I think for me, that's what's been missing from some of those experiences, is the invitation and having that experience of being kind of in charge of my own experience. But we also have things like experiential reparenting workshops that we're doing. We're doing nervous system regulation. We're doing some really beautiful integrative attachment work. People will get access to my online Enneagram course if they choose to come to the retreat.

So, they also get, like, a discounted typing session with me. I mean, there's just, like, a lot of bonuses. We're doing a group astrology reading with our favorite astrologer, intuitive astrologer.

So, like, it is a jam-packed weekend, but it's full of all of the things that I love and that help me feel grounded in the current version of my self-energy. And it's all the things that make my parts feel like they don't have to work so fucking hard to survive, right? That they can relax and that my secure, mature self is in charge.

PATRICK CASALE: I love that. And sounds like an amazing, really well-thought-out, intentional experience. So, for those of you listening, if you want to get into the mountains, if you want to do some of the work we've talked about during this episode, I think that sounds like a pretty incredible opportunity. Monica, tell them where they can find that.

MONICA LEBLANC: So, you can go to my website, monica-leblanc.com. And there's an upcoming events tab. It'll be there. You can also find me on Instagram. I'm @connectingwithmonicaleblanc. I'm talking about the retreat every day for the next six weeks. So, you can find me there.

PATRICK CASALE: Consistency is key.

MONICA LEBLANC: [INDISCERNIBLE 00:40:20]find me there. You can also visit Elizabeth's website. That's probably where the most information is going to be. And it's elizabethgillette.com/heldretreat.

PATRICK CASALE: How do you spell Gillette for those of the people who are listening?

MONICA LEBLANC: G-I-L-L-E-T-T-E.

PATRICK CASALE: Perfect. All of that information will be in the show notes so that you have easy access to all of Monica's information, her upcoming retreat, her event, and everything else that she's got going on. So, make sure to follow her on Instagram. Make sure to check out the retreat opportunity.

Monica, thank you so much for coming on here, and sharing your story, and just being an awesome person and friend. And you're one of the few people who I'm, like, constantly thinking about in Asheville. Like, "I should reach out to Monica to get coffee." So, that puts you in, like, the black cat space, for sure. And I really appreciate that.

MONICA LEBLANC: Thank you, Patrick. It's such a compliment. And I'm so glad to be able to do this with you, and to have this conversation. And to have, like, an aligned offering that I can bring to your audience because, like, I've been living without windshield wipers, so…

PATRICK CASALE: I do like that analogy a lot. To everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice podcast, new episodes are out on every single Saturday on all major platforms and YouTube.

Make sure to also go to my website for 2025 retreat and summit options, which include Neurodivergent Burnout in Belize in January, Ireland's Doubt Yourself, Do it Anyway retreat in March, which is sold out and has been for years, the Creating Alternative Streams of Income retreat in Catalonia, Spain, in May, the Doubt Yourself, Do it Anyway summit in Edinburgh, Scotland in July, the Creating Alternative Streams of Revenue retreat in Catalonia, Spain in September, and the Leadership retreat in Hania on the island of Crete in Greece in November. Hope to see you there. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. And we will see you next week.