Transcript 

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the All Things Private Practice podcast. I'm your host, Patrick Casale. Make sure to download, subscribe, like, follow, all the things.

I'm joined today by Dr. Shauna Pollard, who's also known as Dr. P, a licensed psychologist, seeing clients across 20 states, specializing in helping busy professionals shift the patterns of behavior that are holding them back so they can accomplish their goals. In particular, Dr. P has extensive experience working with clients who are BIPOC and ADHDers. She herself is a ADHDer as well and running groups for BIPOC therapists with ADHD to support them in optimizing their workflows, managing time, and working through the shame and stigma associated with the unique challenges that they face.

Really happy to have you on. Please fill in any gaps as I probably missed some things that feel really important. And yeah, we're going to talk about neurodivergent entrepreneurs who are also BIPOC entrepreneurs, and the intersectionality, and some unique struggle areas, and then the strengths as well. And fill in any gaps that I missed.

SHAUNA POLLARD: Yeah, thank you. I'm glad to be here, Patrick. I don't know if it was in the bio, but I've been in private practice, probably, I think, since 2015. But I've been in solo practice since 2021. And so, practice is doing well. I have spent the last couple of years trying to figure out how to have a solo practice and it's been a fun journey. It's been very interesting. I always tell people when I worked in a practice before all I did was clinical work. I would show up, do clinical work, make sure I was making it up, and go home.

Now, I have like 15 jobs, you know? I do marketing. I know how to, like, edit websites. I create content on social media. I do a million things now. So, that kind of works with the ADHD brain.

PATRICK CASALE: It really does. You know, it's like, I would love to do a poll or do some research to see how many entrepreneurs and business owners are ADHDers because entrepreneurialship, owning your own business, doing all the things, right, really goes… This is going to sound weird. It actually really supports the ADHD brain and nervous system. It also really makes the ADHD brain and nervous system struggle because of executive functioning challenges and all the other things that come with ADHD. So, it's a blessing and a curse, I'd say.

So, you identify as an ADHDer. When were you diagnosed? Was it early on or was it later in life?

SHAUNA POLLARD: Oh, I had done a dissertation by the time I got diagnosed. So, I was about 30. So, there's two points of diagnosis. So, there's when I was first given medication by a PCP, which was during my internship. So, probably would have been a couple years earlier. And then, there's when I actually went and got a psych eval done and a formal diagnosis. But yeah, I was on internship when I started taking medication. And then, I was a couple years after that that I got the formal diagnosis. So, yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: Impressive that you were able to go through dissertation and, like, undiagnosed, and just kind of in that chaotic creative process that happens for us, but also being able to hold it all together.

Can you share a little bit about, like, the behind the scenes prior to diagnosis? Like, what's happening there in terms of how you are able to move through life, and higher education, and everything else?

SHAUNA POLLARD: Yeah, I think, you know, there were periods of chaos. So, let's be clear, it wasn't as seamless. But I think, probably, I always just knew there was something different about me. And so, you know, I think from my parents I got very good work ethic and so I just worked really hard to overcompensate.

And so, I knew in grad school, like, when it was dissertation time I was like, "I would like to be finished with my dissertation before I go to internship because I don't think I can do both things at once." And so, that meant I took an extra year compared to other people, but I was just like, "I know this is how it has to be."

I think what also helped was I took advantage of, like, any programs that were out there to help people. So, I remember at my grad school we had something called Dissertation House, where you would go, and sit with other students, and work on your writing together. It was kind of like coworking before I knew what coworking was, but the staff there, like, led it. And like, it was, like, a couple of days. And then, I think you had, like, follow-up things happen. So, anytime there were, like, opportunities for support or structure, like, I took advantage of them.

And then, my peers who weren't ADHD, I kind of followed them and kept track with them. But I always tell people, like, things got messy before, you know, I would always mess up or miss the first couple of assignments, and then that would kind of like, wake me up, and then get me back on track. And like, you know, go forward from there.

And then, in grad school, I feel like I discovered a podcast. I can't remember the name of it, but I know the guy's name is Tim Petrol. He's a psychologist. And I think it was about procrastination. And they talked a lot about executive function. So, I remember listening to the episodes and like starting to put things into practice there to kind of help me focus, and stay organized, and, you know?

So, I think a lot of maybe like self-acceptance, of like, "This is just how I am. I'm a person who loses things. I'm a person who's disorganized sometimes. I'm a person who doesn't always get it right." But, you know, I guess I had the strengths to make up for the weak areas, so…

PATRICK CASALE: So, you said a couple of things that stood out to me, like while in college, that sounds very much, like, just body doubling, right? Like, that ADHDers really do well when you're around other people and able to, like, hold yourself accountable, you have that social component, you have that stimulation that allows you to kind of focus in. So, that's awesome that that was offered.

It also sounds like you were building in accommodations for yourself that you kind of didn't even know you were building into your life, like having these checks and balances, putting things off to "people would say procrastinate" but I think ADHDers really do really well under pressure when it feels like, "Oh, now there's this catalyst that makes this thing more exciting, or it makes it more urgent." Opposed to like, when we're sitting with something, we're like, "Okay, it's due in like, a month. That doesn't feel that important to me." And then, all of a sudden, it's the night before, and you're like, "Oh shit. Like, this needs to get done." And then, it gets done.

I think we often look at these things from like a deficit model. And there can be a lot of guilt and shame around how we move through this, but like, in reality, our neurotypes are just different, and we need different things in order to function and support ourselves. So, it's fascinating when we look at it from that perspective.

Now, honing back into this, you're someone who's ADHD, who's also a BIPOC therapist, and clinician, and doctor. So, there's an intersectionality here between neurodivergence and race. And I imagine going through life there was a ton of masking going on and having to be a different person in different rooms at different situations.

SHAUNA POLLARD: Sure, yeah. I think even before I knew what masking was, like, it's interesting because it was going into private practice on my own that encouraged me to stop masking around ADHD.

I remember I met with another psychologist who's, like, written books on ADHD. And she was like, "You should tell people about your diagnosis." I was like, "No, they don't need to know that. It's nobody's business" And so, I was like, "I'm not going to, like, share that."

But I think what would happen was, like, I shared it with a couple of people, maybe a client here or there who felt like safe. And then, people were like, "Oh, I saw that you wrote that you are ADHD and that was what made me want to work with you." And that was exactly what the other psychologists had said. And I was like, "Okay, like, I guess I…" And so, it was like, the more that I shared it, the more that people would say that.

And now, when I go places, I tell people. I'm like, "Yeah, like, people come up to me all the time and tell me what their diagnosis is." And you know, so I just know all types of people who have ADHD because people love to tell me now, yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. It's advocacy at its purest form, though, right? Like, the ability to say openly, like, I am ADHD. For myself, I often will introduce myself like I'm autistic ADHD because what it does for people in the room is it gives them permission to embrace that side of themselves, and have some acceptance, and potentially, even disclose publicly in spaces that they may not have before.

So, I think it's a really powerful thing when we're thinking about this identity and we're thinking about being able to disclose. Like you said, putting it on a website is wonderful marketing because, like, when your clients come across it, and read it, and they see that you have stated that publicly, they're like, "I want to work with this person. Like, that makes me feel much more safe and much more comfortable."

SHAUNA POLLARD: Yeah, absolutely. So, when I started to think about what my specialty was, I thought about, well, I get a lot of neurodivergent clients. So, when I was in the group practice, I was in Maryland. And so, I got, I'm not going to say zero training, but like, not a lot of formal training working with neurodivergents because I wasn't a child therapist. And so, I would just get clients. And I was like, "I feel like this is ADHD." And then, later on, they would disclose. Or, "I feel like this is autism." And later on, people would disclose.

So, I felt like that forced me to start doing trainings and getting additional expertise in those areas because they would say, like, "I want to work with you. I don't want to go work with anyone else." And I feel like it's just a brain-type synergy thing. I don't know if you've experienced this as well, right?

And so, I had to get trained. So, I feel like it chose me. I didn't necessarily choose it as a niche, but I wasn't sort of, like, advertising it ever until I started to go into practice solo. But then the more I started advertising, the more people started coming. So, it's just been really interesting, you know? And I can't remember the original question I'm answering now, of course.

PATRICK CASALE: The very ADHD response, but I think you did get to the question. And I think that's a really good, important point, not just for those of you listening who are in private practice, but any of you who are entrepreneurs, in general. The more you embrace your ideal client, which I think, and I've said this for years, and I know other people say it too, I'm not like the founder of this, that our ideal client is a version of ourselves. And that version evolves as we evolve.

So, like, when I got out of grad school I didn't know I was an autistic ADHD human. I knew I felt weird. I knew I felt like I never belonged. I knew I felt like I struggled with a lot of different things in my life, but I did not have a diagnosis, nor did I have the words to put to my experience because it was just not talked about a lot. It wasn't even talked about in grad school, now that I think back about, like, we never talked about neurodivergence. If autism or ADHD were mentioned, it was mentioned in passing and it was probably more focused on the child development side. And it was never talked about as, like, late-in-life adults who, obviously, these autistic or ADHD kids turned into autistic ADHD adults. Like, the diagnosis and the neurotype doesn't just disappear at age 21. So, there's a large percentage of people who are missed, especially, BIPOC folks, who are misdiagnosed and underdiagnosed constantly.

SHAUNA POLLARD: Absolutely.

PATRICK CASALE: Because I don't know if you've had that experience with misdiagnosis, but I know for myself, like I was misdiagnosed with so many different mental health conditions throughout my life where it was like, "I think you're bipolar, I think you're OCD, I think, you know…" Whatever, whatever, whatever. And ultimately, none of those ever really made sense or stuck. But for BIPOC folks, for people that are non-binary or trans, there's an enormous percentage who are mis or under-diagnosed.

SHAUNA POLLARD: Yeah, and I think that's the thing you see. Like, I tell clients, like, if you're not a little white boy and you're not causing trouble in the classroom, you're not likely to get diagnosed. If you're quiet, if you get your work done, if you are looking out the window daydreaming, but you're not bothering anybody, you know, you're not likely to get a diagnosis. So, I think it does happen to lots of folks. Not I think, the research bears this out, that like BIPOC folks are often late diagnoses.

And sometimes I even feel like weird saying I'm a late diagnosed because 30, in some context is not really late. There are people in their 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s who are getting diagnoses. And then, if you think about the fact that, like, BIPOC communities will be under-resourced often. And so, if you think about the fact that we're not learning this stuff in grad school, so where would there be an expert in communities that have the least amount of resources, and in those communities, the resources are going to go to the children that create the most problems.

So, I was a gifted kid, didn't really cause a lot of problems for people. Most people actually liked me because ADHD kids can sometimes be helpful. And like [CROSSTALK 00:15:19]-

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, but it's a lot of [CROSSTALK 00:15:19] right? Like, there's a lot of, like, outside-the-box ideas and energy for other people. And like, there's a lot of people pleasing when you're masking. So, people tend to like you, right? Because it's like, if I help this person out and support them, it takes the attention off of me, which is really great for us who feel like we don't want to be perceived. We want to be in the background in some in some ways.

And as a young white boy, I was also a gifted child, but I was not the disruptive, unruly version of "stereotypical ADHD or autism." So, I would spend a lot of time reading, by myself, daydreaming, etc., but not putting myself into situations to draw attention. So, it was just missed my entire life.

I talk about grief relief a lot. And I just wonder what life would have been like had I known these things when I was younger, to then be able to place and put accommodations into my life, scholastically, professionally, personally, socially, all of the ways. And I wonder what life could look like right now.

SHAUNA POLLARD: Yeah, no, I think that's a phase everybody goes through, that grief of like, "Oh, what if I got diagnosed earlier?" And, you know, I think logically, sometimes I know, like, that doesn't mean anything either. I have clients who were diagnosed earlier, and you know, it can actually be deleterious sometimes, you know? But I think it's natural. Like, I definitely went through that phase of like, "If I had been given all these resources, I knew all these things earlier…" Like, whatever.

And I need to think about that professionally because I used to be so envious of people who, like, always knew exactly what they were doing. They were like, "Yeah, I'm going to go to grad school. And I'm going to start a private practice." I tell people, when I went to grad school, I didn't know I was going to be clinical. The program I was at had non-clinical programs. And so, I was like, "I'm going to see when I get there." You know, I never knew I was going to go to private practice.

PATRICK CASALE: That's a very choose your own adventure type of [CROSSTALK 00:17:23]-

SHAUNA POLLARD: I feel like that's my life, it's a choose your own adventure and, like, I just choose. And I'm like, "Oh, like, I like kids, but I don't like working with them therapeutically. I think I'm going to work with adults." You know? Like, whereas other people are like, "I know I want to work with bipolar people and do research." And I'm like, "I wish I was that person."

PATRICK CASALE: You too, me too. Because my interests changed, like, not seasonally, potentially, even monthly, you know? But Dr. Dodson did work on this interest-based nervous system as ADHDers, and really pursuing the things that are interesting and stimulating, right? And that interest could change in a month, it could change in a year, it could change tomorrow. And a lot of people experience shame over that, right? Before they understand that that's just a part of your system, that's a part of who you are, to give yourself permission to pursue these things that interest you opposed to like, feeling like I said yes to this one thing, I'm going to do this for the rest of my life. Like, can you imagine doing anything for the rest of your life? No, you're like, "Hell no."

SHAUNA POLLARD: I was thinking about, like, I was like, "So, what have I been up to this year?" And I was like, "Well, I've given a couple of talks, so I'm like [INDISCERNIBLE 00:18:41] group practice. I, like, have a small clinical caseload. Like, I've done some coaching with entrepreneurs" I'm like, I've done like, six different things, and there's nothing in me now that's like, this is what you're going to be doing for the rest of your life. I can definitely see myself, like, ramping certain things up or certain things down.

And like, I feel like this is where I kind of wanted to be because before I was seeing clients all day, every day. And I was just like, "That's not really how I envision my professional life being." Like, I liked what I had in grad school where, like, I did research, I saw some clients. Like, I was doing a mixture of things.

And so, I've been trying to figure out, over the past couple years, like, how to replicate that, and you know, there's no like model for exactly how to do that. There's a lot of different ways you can go about that. And so, it's been interesting. So, I feel like leaning into that interest-based nervous system has helped take away some of the shame of like, you know, I do what I feel passionate about, and at different phases of life, that will shift.

PATRICK CASALE: Yep, yeah, that's well said because it's really about taking away that shame we had mentioned. We had talked a little bit about some shamefulness and guilt before we started recording in a different context. And I think there's a lot of shamefulness for ADHDers who are like, "I am so passionate about this project or this idea." And then, it fizzles out. And you can really beat yourself up for feeling like, "I can never start anything, I can never finish anything."

And in reality, if you watch, like, the trajectory and zoom out you're just bouncing from, like, the thing that feels really interesting to you at the moment. And can that be a struggle and challenge area if you really can't reign it in at any time? Yes, but what you just said is really typical for ADHD entrepreneurs.

So, I did some speaking, I did some consulting, I did some coaching, I did some therapy, I did some content creation. I wouldn't have it any other way. That's why I struggle when people read my bio because they're like, "Okay, keynote speaker, coach, consultant, podcast host, therapy, like, all the things." And I'm like, "Oh my God. Like, I do all those things?"

And in reality, I do. And, you know, like, people have asked me about my retreats and my summits, and they're like, "Do you think you'll do these for the rest of your life?" And I'm like, "Hell, no. Like, I don't even know if I'm going to do these next year." So, you know, like, I really think it's about embracing that instead of beating ourselves up for experiencing life that way. And I think that's really important, which makes a good transition into what you wanted to talk about a little bit. You run coaching programs and like, consultation groups. I don't know what you call them, so I'll let you edit my words for BIPOC ADHDers, who are entrepreneurs who are struggling with some of these areas of their businesses. Can you tell us a little bit about what those are and why those exist?

SHAUNA POLLARD: Yeah, so I think I reached a place where I was trying to lay out, like, what I want my business to look like. And I knew, like, I wanted to offer more than one-to-one options. And so, I was like, "Okay, what about groups for clients?" And then, as I started telling other therapists about the groups, I kept hearing therapists say, like, "Oh, I need a group like that. I need…"

And first, they had never disclosed to me, like, any diagnostic history before. And so, I was talking with a group of colleagues that I have who are clinicians of color, and I was like, "Oh, like…" And they were like, "You should run a group for, like, you know, therapists with ADHD." And I was like, "You know what? Like, it sounds like a good idea."

And so, in a way, it is something that I didn't have at that phase of my career, but it's something that I've had at other phases, like throughout my career. I think about it from, like, an attachment perspective. I've always had BIPOC and black networks of individuals who were doing what I was doing. And that would help me feel safe to kind of… a safe base to go out into the world and do other things. But when I went into private practice, I wasn't aware of those spaces. I was kind of on my own. And so, I kind of had to figure that out, you know, in terms of, like translating interventions, and like how to just, like, navigate some of the tensions working with underserved communities or communities where, like, evidence-based treatments really have to be tweaked a little bit, or, like, you know, you have to add things to them to make them, like, work, you know? And so, I kind of designed the group from that perspective.

And I also wanted something where I'm not the authority. Like, I don't know everything. The goal, eventually, is to have folks build community with each other so that after the group is over and you have a network of peers to be able to ask questions, and reach out for resources, and bounce ideas off of, and like, talk about maybe your big dreams that you have in terms of being in private practice.

So, yeah, we work on the admin side of being a therapist. I call it a consultation group, but it's not like case consultation. It's us thinking about how to set up our businesses in a way that suits our nervous systems, thinking about the caseloads that we take, how we do transitions between clients, how we manage time. Notes can be an issue. A lot of folks end up being behind, needing strategies to catch up. And so, those are some of the things that we tackle in the group. So, kind of like you said with the retreat, I don't know that I'm going to run it forever but…

PATRICK CASALE: But when you're in it, you're invested in it.

SHAUNA POLLARD: I am. And when I finish it, like, when I do the reviews and I get the feedback from people, I think that is the thing that makes me say, like, "Oh, I need to run this again." But then when I'm like, "Oh, I need to do marketing." Then I'm like, "I don't want to do that anymore."

PATRICK CASALE: One, I just want to say what you just said, and what you're offering is definitely a need in the community, right? Like, that's huge. I think that the more groups that exist like that, or people who are multiply marginalized in a lot of ways, the more we're going to start to see more and more representation behind certain experiences. So, that's wonderful that you're doing that.

I appreciate that you're addressing the emotional side of the business ownership perspective because in grad school they didn't teach us anything. Like, and this is notorious. There might be one or two people listening who are like, "Yeah, we had, like, classes and practicums." Most people did not get a single sampling of advice or support about private practice or small business ownership.

If you got anything it was probably like, "Oh, people don't do that." Or, like, "That's really hard to do." So, I think that's really the academic perspective and kind of the perspective in community mental health as well.

And what I got in community mental health was like, once you burn yourself out enough you can go start a business. It's like, what kind of advice is that? So, I appreciate that you're offering that in the organizational, like, executive functioning, coaching, consulting, whatever we want to call it, all the things.

And I think you said something that really made me have that moment of like, "Oh yeah, me too." When I get the feedback or I see the connections being made in my retreats, and the friendships, and the experiences, and people just simply, like, really, truly embracing life and just taking risks, and being a part of, and seeing the feedback, that's when I'm like, "Oh, I should do another one of these."

But like, while I'm in it, I'm like, "Okay, I enjoy this and I appreciate this, but, man, this takes a lot of energy from me." So, I really have to check myself to say, like, what can I commit to and what do I feel passionate about? Because if I don't feel passionate about a thing, I'm not going to show up as my best self. I'm not going to be invested. And it's going to show. And it's going to bleed over into whatever I'm doing.

SHAUNA POLLARD: Yeah, and I think, for me, it's been tempering the energy. And for me, like, I'm sure lots of ADHDers have to do this as entrepreneurs, but I'm constantly reminding myself, like, you can only do a couple of things at a time because I have so many ideas. I want to do other things. I'm like, "I want to do a part two. Like, make the group longer." And I'm like, "That sounds great, but like, I have to be the one to run that so…" And like, "I'm giving you what I can commit to right now which is six weeks, right?"

So, for me, there's a cost of, like, all right, like, you can do all the things, but should you do all the things? And is it going to, like, drain you, you know? And I have to say that to my clients all the time because, you know, I feel like grandiosity is a little bit a part of ADHD. Like, we have big ideas and we think that we can do all of this stuff. And it's like, yeah, you can, but there are consequences that come with that.

So, I think for me, it's always a tempering of, like, what's realistic? Like, yeah, I can run the group a million times if I never had to do any marketing, you know? Like [CROSSTALK 00:30:40]-

PATRICK CASALE: For sure.

SHAUNA POLLARD: …marketing, that helps to slow me down.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, that's well said. I mean, I've been in that too, when I used to run private practice startup groups. So, I do, like, six weeks, six people, then it turned into two months, and it turned to four-month programs. And then, like, I have so many ideas that it's really hard to envision doing the same thing over and over and over again. It feels way too monotonous.

But what you said is really important is, like, you can have all these ideas, but you do have to temper your expectations sometimes because, like, if I try to do all of them my executive functioning will completely shut down and I will do none of them. And ultimately, I'll get really frustrated with myself or with things out of my control. So, as an autistic ADHDer I'm constantly trying to balance and like, autistic side waving the white flag of like, I just want to be quiet, soothing, relaxed, like doing nothing.

ADHD is like, "Let's invest in these new opportunities and experiences, and let's say yes to partnerships." And autism is like, "What are we doing here? Like, you're killing me." So, I've really had to work hard to find that balance.

What I do is I have, like, a Google Drive sheet or doc. I've had it color-coded. And it's check boxes. And what I'll do is, like, put this idea, dump into this doc, and I will revisit it weekly, and it's color-coded. So, like, green is, like, hell yes, we are going to pursue this. Yellow is, proceed with caution, it's a good idea, but, you know, just be really cautious about how much energy you're investing. And red is like, no, we're not doing this. But it's more importantly, red does not mean we're not doing this forever, we're never going to come back to this. It's just not the right season of life to say yes to this opportunity or this idea right now.

So, giving yourself permission to revisit these really good ideas that are just not great ideas for right now, instead of saying, "I will never do this, I'll never be able to put this into the world." I think that feels really limiting in a lot of ways.

SHAUNA POLLARD: Yeah, I like the idea of a color-coded system. But I tell myself that all the time, and I talk with clinicians about that because sometimes there's tension about, like, accessibility and making things accessible. And I had to remind myself, like, in this season of life, this is what I can provide. It doesn't mean that things will be different. Things won't be different in another season, but in another season, when I can do more, I will do more.

And so, I think it's thinking about, like, it's a not right now, but if I can, like, create a really good foundation, like, for my business and for my emotional stability, like because I think that's the key for me is, how do I make private practice sustainable for the long term? Because for a lot of people, there's a lot of burnout, right? And I've been there before, and so I'm always thinking like, the long-term goal is to still be here, and to still be offering new things, and bringing new things into the world. And if I do too much right now and I burn myself out then, like, I'm not going to be here later.

PATRICK CASALE: Well said. That's perfectly said and I agree 100%. So, for those of you listening, if you're in private practice, if you're a neurodivergent entrepreneur, especially, an ADHDer, it's okay to have separate interests, it's okay to diversify. It's actually probably encouraged that you don't commit to just doing the same thing over and over and over again. Preventing burnout is very, very important, and it takes a lot of work, and thoughtfulness, and intentionality.

SHAUNA POLLARD: Shauna, thank you so much for coming on. This has been a really enjoyable conversation. I had no idea where we were going to go. You said you were nervous before we started. How are you feeling right now?

SHAUNA POLLARD: I'm calm. I'm always like that. Like, I'm nervous before I get on the podcast, and then I love to talk. I love networking out of all of that. So, like [CROSSTALK 00:34:33].

PATRICK CASALE: Love it. So, you have a six-week consultation group starting on September 21st. Can you tell the audience a little bit about where they can find it, who it's for, and anything else that you want to include? And we'll have this in the show notes too, for everybody, in case that's an easier place to access the information.

SHAUNA POLLARD: Yeah. So, it's September the 20th. It's for six weeks. We meet for an hour, 12 o'clock Eastern Standard Time. But we have folks all across the country who participated in the past and we are connecting. There's like a Slack group that we have to be able to facilitate communication between… The last group started having co-working amongst themselves. And what else is there? We go over finances, like how to have a financial spreadsheet that I share with people on how to build your practice so that it supports you financially. We go over, like, resources and supports for ADHD clinicians. Everyone shares their ideas and thoughts.

And so, it's semi-structured. Some sessions are structured, some are unstructured. But yeah, the goal is to give people a space to talk about the intersectionality of those different identities. Like Patrick said, like, we don't really learn a lot about how to be an entrepreneur in grad school if we learn anything. And so, it's nice to have peers who are building practices. Sometimes people have similar specialties, or ideas, or even can ask questions about referrals or consultations that they can do outside of the group.

So, yeah, it's just really a way to start to build community and to help you embrace ADHD because if you're late diagnosis, I have a lot of folks who aren't getting diagnosed until after they've been clinicians for a while. So, it's sort of like that's a new and emerging identity that, you know?

PATRICK CASALE: For sure.

SHAUNA POLLARD: [CROSSTALK 00:36:36].

PATRICK CASALE: And where can they find that information if they wanted to sign up?

SHAUNA POLLARD: Yeah, so it's on my website page. So, it'll be in the show notes. I'm sure there'll be a link there. And then, I'm on Instagram @drshaunap. I'm also on LinkedIn, so you can message me there. So, there'll be links available where you can just find out more. Or if you need anything, you may just message me on either of those platforms, so…

PATRICK CASALE: And for people who are listening, what is your website like?

SHAUNA POLLARD: Say that, oh, my website. Oh, there you go, www.drspllc.com. And then, from there on the page there'll be a link that says Support for ADHD Clinicians. And you just click on the tab that says BIPOC Clinicians with ADHD. And then, you can register and do a call. The price is on there. There's lots to read about dates and how the group runs.

And again, if you have any other questions, you can just DM me through Instagram. I respond pretty easily or on LinkedIn.

PATRICK CASALE: Great. Thank you so much for coming on and making the time. Shauna, great conversation.

To everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice podcast, new episodes are out on every single Saturday on all major platforms and YouTube. Make sure to like, download, subscribe, and share.

If you haven't signed up for any of my 2025 retreats, just know that you're going to miss out on January's Neurodivergent Entrepreneur series and Belize from January 12th to the 16th, Creating Alternative Streams of Income in Catalonia, in Spain, May 17th to the 22nd. My Doubt Yourself, Do it Anyway summit in Scotland, July 14th to the 18th. And Creating Alternative Streams of Income in Catalonia, Spain, September 13th to the 18th. You can find all of that on my website. Make sure to sign up. We'd love to see at those events. And doubt yourself, do it anyway. And have a good week.