Episode 125: When Life Hands You Lemons: Pivot and Adapt [featuring Danica Wolf]

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Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. You are listening to another episode of the All Things Private Practice podcast. I'm your host, Patrick Casale. I'm joined today by a good friend and colleague, Danica Wolf, who's an MSW and the COO of Simplified SEO Consulting. We are going to talk about some struggle areas in entrepreneurialship, and when things don't work out, and how to recover from that as well, and whatever else comes up.

So, thanks for coming on. I think we rescheduled on one another six or seven times over the last six months, so-

DANICA WOLF: At least.

PATRICK CASALE: Here we are.

DANICA WOLF: Here we are. Finally, happening.

PATRICK CASALE: Did I miss anything from your bio, the things that I said I didn't want to read or the things that-

DANICA WOLF: No.

PATRICK CASALE: Share with the audience.

DANICA WOLF: No, I think we're all good.

PATRICK CASALE: [INDISCERNIBLE 00:01:40] coffee lover and loves walks on the beach, and I was like, I don't want [CROSSTALK 00:01:44]-

DANICA WOLF: Right, long walks on the beach. That's what I needed you to include. Especially, if they're in Spain, you know, putting coffee together in New Orleans, wherever, wherever we need to be.

PATRICK CASALE: That's true. Danica has come on a couple of our retreats and typically, takes on the role of like the retreat mom, or it's like, "Hey, I'm going to help clean up, I'm going to help keep people quiet, I'm going to help people not get lost in the streets of Barcelona." All the things.

DANICA WOLF: Those are important roles, but I feel like, you know, it fits nicely. And you know, I'm happy to take on that role, whenever you need me. Need me to come to come to New Orleans [INDISCERNIBLE 00:02:18].

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, it makes sense. So, tell us a little bit about who you are and why this topic feels important to talk about.

DANICA WOLF: Yeah, so as you mentioned, you know, I'm an MSW, but my path was sort of unconventional. So, I went directly into grad school from undergrad. I actually chose my university because it had a five-year program and I was like, "All right, you can get your undergraduate degree in social work in five years." I was like, "Cool, I can start helping people faster." You know, of course, I assumed I had to like go save the children, and you know, work in, you know, community, either like foster care or something like that.

But I have shifted a little bit in undergrad and I ended up really being drawn to the policy planning and administration side of things. So, while I should say, I have, you know, very much the nurturing, the empathetic, most people in this world think that I'm a therapist. I have those traits and loved that sense, you know, about myself that I do lean into that in a lot of ways.

I realized relatively quickly that my skills were really more leadership-oriented, leadership, strategic visioning, you know, helping to either like, elevate an organization or you know, get it back on the right track, whatever that might look like which sounds like a lot to figure out when you're, you know, 18 to 21. But through a whole series of experiences that was made pretty clear.

So, I pivoted from clinical and went to that you know, policy planning and administration track and really loved it, ended up running an organization, an office on our campus for almost a decade. And that space, you know, taught me so much. It was, you know, very trauma-focused. It was like our crisis intervention and advocacy center. We were, you know, starting a lot of programs and initiatives with that, that were highly successful and national models. And almost overnight, it's never overnight, right? But it seems like it sure hit the band and things fell apart. Like I said, it was a lot of things that, you know, kind of fit at once. But that role, that identity, I mean, it was my identity.

I had become a mom, I had, you know, done a lot of other things in life. I'd even gone through training to be a full spectrum doula and started my own birth business while doing this role, but that I didn't realize was such a core piece of my identity until it was born suddenly. And it was probably the biggest trauma I've ever had.

And, again, that includes a lot of things. But that was, you know, something that was so identity-shifting, that I feel like I'm still, you know, reeling from it years later. But it has informed the work I do now in such a way that, like, I'm finally ready to, you know, take those lessons, and apply them moving forward in, you know, mentorship, coaching, consulting all of that. And I've loved being able to do that in my current role.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And I think like, when this stuff happens unexpectedly, whether they're big traumas, little traumas, compounded, and identity gets rocked, it's really hard because you start questioning everything, and you start questioning, like, what is my purpose? Who am I? Like, was all of this just kind of a facade?

DANICA WOLF: Absolutely, was anything that folks told me, you know, during that time… I was encouraged, I was told, you know, "Danica, you're going to run the university someday. You just have to figure out, like, what your path is going to be."

And six weeks later, it was that same person who was telling me, "You know, okay, well, this is what we have to do." And so you then question, was everything else a lie? Was any of that true?

PATRICK CASALE: Right. And were the skill sets that propped me up into this position on this trajectory, were those not accurate? Were those embellished? Like, did I miss something? You start questioning yourself?

DANICA WOLF: Exactly.

PATRICK CASALE: Did I miss these red flags? Did I miss these signs, etc.? And then all of a sudden, it's like, how can I even trust my decision-making going forward? So…

DANICA WOLF: Yeah, [CROSSTALK 00:07:46]-

PATRICK CASALE: That's big. 

DANICA WOLF: …everybody else, yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, exactly. And then when life is also happening simultaneously, right? Like, I know, we're not being like, very clear or specific about what you experienced. I kind of have an idea, because you've told me, personally, but I know, we also can't air it publicly. So, all I know is that for those of you listening, like when you're like, "Oh, man, I've had some major, major life circumstances happen and my identity has been rocked or shifted, and my whole self-image has kind of been undone." Can you talk about how to pick up the pieces from there and how to move forward? Because I think we want to highlight the struggle on this podcast, but we want to highlight the resiliency too, because there's resilience in your story.

DANICA WOLF: Absolutely. And that's what I think has become more clear, even since needing to reschedule, right? So, you know, being at some of the, you know, events over this past year, particularly, yours, but you know, has helped me feel more like I can step into my place in this field, because, you know, even being on Jen's podcast, Wellness, from last year, I don't know that I was as clear about the fact that I'm not a therapist, right? There's some impostor syndrome there, right?

PATRICK CASALE: For sure.

DANICA WOLF: You know, and oh, are people going to still trust me? And all of that. But I feel like I've actually kind of been able to own that a bit more. And, you know, own those skills that I've developed, but also, you know, cultivated in multiple careers, in, you know, multiple places, including, you know, what I would consider kind of [INDISCERNIBLE 00:09:45] and yeah, getting to lean into that a little bit more and have the reinsurance that everything built, everything that is learned, you know all lessons learned, and we are also resilient, and can do so much with everything that we've done and gone through.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. One, I want to say, the whole not being a therapist thing. I'm just like, I have this annoying thought in my mind right now where I'm like, I definitely set up the Greece sales page with Danica Wolf, LCSW. So, I know I need to [CROSSTALK 00:10:21] [INDISCERNIBLE 00:10:25] like, hey, so this inaccurate, we can't do this. Nevertheless, you do have that personality type for sure.

So, with the acronyms, with the license, whatever, doesn't matter, I think that there's so much that can be gained for us from places of pain and struggle, kind of hit our, "Like rock bottom." And I know for me, there's been multiple instances like that in my life, whether it be like the epitome of gambling addiction, where it was just destruction and there wasn't a way out of that, or anything recently, even as fucking throat surgery, where my entire life, and voice, and everything else livelihood, talk about identity has been altered. And I've had to really come to terms with that in a different way.

I think the more we can, you know, in the moment it sucks. We don't see how this is going to turn into a lesson, or this is going to turn into a roadmap or a trajectory. But if we can kind of heal, and do the work around it, and then embrace that pain, and that suffering, and that struggle, and then we can openly share about our struggle. It kind of helps illuminate a pathway for others who are like, "Is this ever going to get better? Am I ever going to be able to find my footing and my ground again? Am I ever going to have that trajectory or that pathway?"

And I really think it's important to just talk about the things that rock us to our core because that's the human experience in a nutshell is like, the more we can normalize these things, the more we can feel more closely connected to other people and to other people's experiences, too.

DANICA WOLF: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right. And it's fascinating because like, you know, as somebody who, you know, specializes in trauma as an advocate, I could see that so clearly in that world. As a doula I could see, you know, I became a doula because I had significant birth trauma, and I just wanted to learn more, right? Like, and then realized, oh, I can do this, I can help people, and I might be good at this.

And so, you know, I saw that path so clearly. Even since this, you know, career trauma I've, you know, gotten separated, and since divorced, right? And I feel like that is something that I can, you know, easily talk about, and, you know, help people through, help people with, even as I was going through it, for whatever reason, with this particular, you know, career thing. And I don't know if it's because it was so much a part of my identity, because it was so unexpected, or because I also considered myself, you know, not just consider myself, because I am an entrepreneur, too. It has taken so much longer to lean into to realize and lean into that piece of it, of what am I going to do with this? Right? And it's fascinating.

And I feel like, I'm still, you know, even as we're having this conversation, kind of working that out a bit. But it has come up in, you know, consulting, and coaching, and with some of my SEO training clients, and even the team that we work with, it's come up in different ways. And I'm slowly starting to apply some of those lessons, and you know, some of that healing to those conversations. And that I think has been even more healing, if that makes any sense.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, it makes total sense. And I think about, like, why I stand behind the statements of like, disclosure being one of the most powerful ways to build rapport. And whether that means for a therapist out there who's like, "I can't do that because grad school said, I have to be a blank slate all the time." And I'm like, but we are in the business of relational work. So, how do you build trust and connection without a little bit?

Also, as an entrepreneur, when you're meeting with your clients, right? Coaching clients, SEO clients, I imagine they're coming in to these sessions with some anxiety, some doubt, some, like overwhelm, some-

DANICA WOLF: All of it.

PATRICK CASALE: I don't know how to get clients in the door. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, which therefore like makes you then question your sense of self, because you're seeing all this stuff on social media of all these people who are successful. And you're like, "Clearly, I'm not. Clearly, I don't know what I'm doing. Clearly, like, I'm fucking something up."

So, you're holding that space in that regard. And by saying, like, I know what that feels like to some degree, or I can share a little of my own experience where something like this has happened, or I've experienced this emotion, it kind of lets people like just drop in, and they're like, "Okay, I can trust the fact that like, this is going to be okay, right?" Like, if we can embrace some of these struggles and openly discuss them even within our businesses, it's okay to be afraid, it's okay to be overwhelmed, it's okay to have self-doubt, it's okay to have impostor syndrome, it's okay to fail.

DANICA WOLF: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: We need to talk about that more because otherwise, it feels like this secret society where you're just not let in because you're the only one who's having these struggles when in reality if you openly discuss them almost everyone I meet is like, "Oh, yeah, me too."

DANICA WOLF: Exactly.

PATRICK CASALE: And then it can be so much less scary.

DANICA WOLF: Yeah, and it's okay to start over. It is okay to, you know, do all of that and you know, feel hopeful, again, too.

PATRICK CASALE: Yep.

DANICA WOLF: Yeah, like you said, you know, the struggle is universal, but also that, you know, resilience, and anchoring in that [INDISCERNIBLE 00:18:44]. I have a tattoo on my wrist that says hope. And you know, I got that in that field, in that, you know, very difficult space of crisis, and trauma, and all of that, but you know, and I realized that could very easily serve as like a negative reminder to me, but it's always been positive. It's always been, no there is still hope here, and what you were doing. Like, you still get to honor what you've done before and know that, you know, that was so great work as well. So, and that both and, that's the next tattoo, both and.

PATRICK CASALE: If you get a both and tattoo then you, basically, should just tell people you are a therapist, because-

DANICA WOLF: Right?

PATRICK CASALE: …which therapist out there doesn't have that statement in some way? I know that my like, go-to default statements like both can be true. And I'm always like making these motions and I'm like, what the fuck am I doing?

But pivoting, and adapting, and evolving is the entrepreneurial way. I don't know any successful small business owner who hasn't gone through hell and like hasn't gone through that moment where they're like, this is just not, everything is crumbling. Some have it more than others, some have it like in less significant ways, but I do know that that is such a common theme of like, I personally despite the successes I've had over the last three years have this constant fear that the bottom is going to fall out, I have this constant fear that like I'm going to fuck up or something's going to go wrong and awry, and everything's just going to come crumbling down. There's no evidence for that. But it's irrational, but it exists. But the more I talk about it, the more it feels like just part of a fleeting thought and not something that paralyzes, and prevents, and dictates.

So, I think it's important to talk about this stuff to the best of your comfort level. I'm really in like, my sensory system is dysregulated, because I'm, like, looking at pictures on my wall that are uneven. And I'm like-

DANICA WOLF: Oh, no.

PATRICK CASALE: I have a fucker that is so uneven I need to fix.

DANICA WOLF: I mean, if you need to get on it.

PATRICK CASALE: [INDISCERNIBLE 00:21:05] the process. But in reality like, I think, again, pivoting, adapting, evolving, as an entrepreneur, where you start out, you're not going to finish, you're going to have speed bumps along the way, you're going to have moments where you question everything, you're going to have pain, and some trauma experience in different degrees because we're human. And that's just what human existence has and includes. And I think we can either take lessons from these things, while also simultaneously understanding, and admitting, and acknowledging that they were hard, and they were painful. Or we can say, this thing destroys me and I'm going to opt for the former every single time.

DANICA WOLF: Right. Absolutely. And, you know, it's like with anything else, you know, we don't experience the bad and we don't appreciate the good. But, you know, I think that with entrepreneurship that's so much more real because it takes a real specific kind of person to want to be an entrepreneur to, you know, have that mindset, have that grit. And, you know, I do think that there's an element in all of us, you know, wanting to do the puzzle, and you know, figure it out, always, and we want it to look shiny and pretty, and like, work and do the things it's supposed to do. I guess this is a really dynamic puzzle I'm picturing in my head, whatever.

But then we always want to then find the next set of pieces and like, move on to the next broken things or thing that can be improved, or whatever. And so I think that isn't good. And we kind of, in the least victim-blaming way I can think of, we kind of set ourselves up for it, right? Like, that's what we signed up for, but that's how we make things that much better.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely.

DANICA WOLF: It's really magical.

PATRICK CASALE: I think there is magic in the entrepreneurial process. And a lot of times we're trying to create something or place something into the world that we ourselves need or we see a need for. And I think that's so true when we're, like, trying to figure this puzzle out. And once it's finished, you're like, "Okay, that was hard. It was challenging. Maybe it was fulfilling. What's next? What's going to feel hard and challenging again, and again?"

And it's kind of torturous, in some ways, honestly. But I probably wouldn't want to have it any other way because it's when I feel the most stimulated and the most creative is when I feel the most challenged in terms of like, how do I figure this out?

So, I think if you're listening and you started a practice, or you're thinking of starting a practice, or you want to scale a practice, or you want to go into a different type of income, it all starts with this process of like, how do I figure out what I want to put out into the world? How do I put these pieces of the puzzle together?

And a lot of the times, it's going to be complicated at first. Like, I know, when I'm looking at instructions for something I'm like, "Ugh." But once you get it down, and you do it, you're like, "Okay, that honestly wasn't so bad. I could replicate that." And I think it's about repetition to you and just getting comfortable with the uncomfortable.

DANICA WOLF: Absolutely. And that has so many applications for both the, you know, working on your business, and you know, figuring out those systems, processes, you know, whatever that means to establish or scale, whatever, but also in that leadership capacity, you know, that's even like [INDISCERNIBLE 00:24:38] on talking about, but when I see that over and over again, like being able to figure out what drives the people you're working with, whether they're working for you, with you, whatever - what drives them, and you know what's going to keep them excited to come to work every day, and helping them find that intrinsic motivation, that passion for what they're doing, regardless of what their job is.

You know, I can light up when I'm talking about that piece of things that we've been really focused on in the last couple of years, you know, making sure that the right people are in the right roles, not just where we thought we needed somebody.

Again, there's both and there, you've got to have people doing the things that are necessary in the business for work, but if the core is really coming from that place of excitement, passion, and service, then, you know, retention is going to be higher, and the overall health and growth potential for the business is going to be much more stable.

PATRICK CASALE: And I think it's a constant reevaluation process, too.

DANICA WOLF: Yes.

PATRICK CASALE: Because it's not like a set it and forget it. When you're in a leadership role, it's not like, sometimes it does feel like, I think, people feel like their leadership style's like, "Well, it's a sinking ship, so we're going to plug the holes." And it's like, "Oh, okay, in the short term, sure, let's keep ourselves afloat."

However, there has to be intentionality, there has to be accountability, there has to be room for feedback, and new ideas. We have to constantly re-evaluate what's working and what's not working.

So, I think for those of us whose minds are constantly going like my own, and I think like yours, and a lot of the people [CROSSTALK 00:26:46] it means that you are constantly analyzing, and evaluating, and re-evaluating.

And although that can sometimes be overwhelming as an internal process, it actually helps quite a bit externally, because it just means that you're seeing things through a completely different lens and a different perspective. And I think that's what makes really good entrepreneurs good at what they do because it's also the ability to let things go when they've kind of come to an end. So, I think that's important, too.

Now, let's pivot a little bit and talk briefly about how all of this experience has supported you in your journey in terms of like helping therapists with their SEO or Search Engine Optimization, for those of you who don't know what that scary word means because you're helping helpers get found, right? Like, you're helping helpers visible, you're ensuring that clients can find them so they can get the help that they need. And you're doing something that a lot of therapists just simply cannot comprehend because it's like a foreign language in a lot of ways.

So, tell me a little bit about, you know, how your pathway ends up here in terms of what you're doing?

DANICA WOLF: Yeah, total accident. I basically, planned on never working for someone else again. So, you know, that sort of, you know, trauma response as we know of running and being like, "Okay, well, how am I never going to get hurt again, I'm not going to trust somebody to be in charge of my professional career again." And, you know, leaned into the birth business, all that.

But I heard that my friend, Jessica from undergrad had her, you know, accidental side hustle that had taken off, and she needed some help. So, I applied. You know, she had her own experience of like seeing my name, and, you know, being like, I don't know, I'd let her tell it. But we decided it would be a good fit. And the plan was that I was going to work about 10 hours a week, super part-time while building the birth business, and learning this skill to both help her out. And that I would take what I learned and build my [INDISCERNIBE 00:29:18] empire.

Fast forward a little bit, life happens. I mentioned a separation, a divorce that was about a month after starting to work for Jessica. So, I called her and said, "Hey, everything just fell apart, again." And she [INDISCESRNIBLE 00:29:33] eyes wide open about what had happened with me before. So, again, I won't go into specifics, but she was intimately aware of what had gone down. So, I felt safer to, you know, go work for her in that regard because, you know, I didn't have to open up about this whole thing about the past.

So, yeah, I said, "Hey, I'm going to need some more hours. I'm trying to now do the single mom thing." And that was fall of 2018.

And then a few months later, the pandemic hit, and therapists were forced to go online, if they were still practicing at all. And Jessica being the innovator she is, you know, kind of saw what was needed immediately and we were in a position to help folks make that event as entrepreneurs have to do. And that really ramped up the work that she and I were doing, and the other members of the team at the time, and we were able to hire.

And so all that said, what I hope folks are hearing there is, it was, you know, sort of out of necessity, and circumstance, but we were growing with our clients, as well.

And so when I'm working with folks, now, whether it's in the done-for-you capacity, or training, that's where I'm doing most of my client work now, our goal is to get books in front of their most ideal clients, so that they're doing the work that they're best at, and most want to do. I don't want people to just get inundated with everybody looking for "Therapy near me." Or, "Therapists near me." Because not all of those searchers are right for you. And you're not right for them. Sorry, you all, tough love there. But it's true.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely.

DANICA WOLF: And that's a recipe for burnout, you know. I want you to want to get out of bed in the morning, I don't want you to dread your caseload. And so what we've done is, you know, been able to really craft a proven process for that, again, however, folks need to engage with their SEO.

But the thing that I'll say because you mentioned how scary it is for folks is we don't work with dummies, you all are brilliant, right? Like, you got to this point becoming a practitioner, owning a practice, whatever that looks like. And so if learning SEO, or putting the pieces in place to turn it over to somebody else is something that you want to do and you can't, we can help with that in a way that I think, whatever, I'll just say it, other marketing agencies, other practitioners, other folks in the field are afraid to do, because we're willing to say like, "Yeah, I'll teach you how to do it, and then you're not going to need me." Right?

PATRICK CASALE: Right.

DANICA WOLF: But that's true, just like there are plenty of people doing therapy, there are plenty of therapists to help. And we're not afraid to say this is something either you can do or you can have us do for this short-term, time-limited thing. No, it's not super short term, I want to be clear, it's a long game, but in the grand scheme of building a business, and your overall marketing strategy, that intensive work doesn't have to happen forever.

PATRICK CASALE: Right. I love that you name that. And that's a great glimpse into how you all run your business. Like, that's how I operated as a therapist too, when I was working as a therapist was like, I'm trying to work myself out of a job, you don't need to need me for the rest of your life. With the understanding that you'll move on, you'll incorporate those skills into your day-to-day, and somebody else will take your time slot, and your place, and that will continue.

So, like same thing for your business model and just the realization like why should we make people dependent on us for the rest of their careers, that feels very unhealthy. And if you've met with any SEO companies who are trying to sell you on that mentality, you know, that could be a red flag, for sure.

So, really cool story. We could go much more in-depth, but a very good glimpse into just having resiliency, hitting some hard times, making it work, and figuring it out, and pivoting as you go.

Thank you so much for coming on, and sharing, and being vulnerable. And I know we didn't know what we were going to talk about when we first started recording, which is basically how every single guest comes on here and we're both like, "Ah, let's see where it goes." So, thank you.

DANICA WOLF: I appreciate that, I appreciate you.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, tell the audience where they can find more of what you all are doing out there right now in the therapist and mental health spaces.

DANICA WOLF: Absolutely. So, simplifiedseoconsulting.com, socials, all the things. But you know, we really want to meet people where they are, and figure out what the best solution is for you. You know, that's really what the model is about and trying to figure out what's going to make sense whether that's us or somebody else. We've got a whole list of referrals too, because, you know, we want the business to succeed the way that you need it to. So, that's what we're doing, you know, free consultations, all of that.

And then, you know, Jessica and I are also doing some speaking, teaching in different ways. Also, I'm not falsely advertising me as an LCSW, but don't worry, she's licensed, she'll [INDISCERNIBLE 00:35:32] the talking grace. But you know, we're speaking on a number of things as well. And so we're also happy to support folks that way. We'll even be providing some CEUs for a conference coming up in the spring too, which is exciting stuff. So, lots of fun work.

PATRICK CASALE: Very, very cool. Thank you so much for coming on. All of Danica's-

DANICA WOLF: Thank you.

PATRICK CASALE: …information will be in the show notes that you have access. If you need SEO support, if you need individual coaching, if you need done-for-you services, etc. And really appreciate you making the time considering the 15 reschedules on both of our ends, mostly on my end. So…

DANICA WOLF: Thank you so much, Patrick, I appreciate. Yeah, it's good to finally see you.

PATRICK CASALE: Good to see you too. I'll see you in Greece.

And to everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice podcast, new episodes are out every single Saturday on all major platforms and YouTube. Like, download, subscribe, and share. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. See you next week.