Episode 164: Nurture Financial Confidence: Relationship-Focused Strategies [featuring Megan Hale]

Show Notes

In this episode, I talk with Megan Hale, a scaling strategist for established social entrepreneurs and founder of the 2% Pledge, about her journey from psychotherapy to becoming a successful entrepreneur and how she empowers other entrepreneurs to create financial wellness with her DreamMoney™ framework.

Key Takeaways:

1. Transformative Financial Mindsets: Megan highlights how understanding your personal relationship with money and addressing money shame and trauma can be a game-changer for business success. Shifting from an anxious-avoidant attachment to a nurturing one with money is crucial.
2. Innovative Tools for Sustainable Growth: Learn about Megan’s DreamMoney™ framework and her exciting venture, the DreamMoney™ App. These tools help entrepreneurs develop deliberate, reliable, easeful, abundant, and meaningful (DREAM) financial strategies, ensuring sustainable business scaling.
3. Empowering Entrepreneurial Journeys: Megan’s story is a testament to the power of resilience and vision. She shares her experiences of navigating new business terrains, seeking investor funding, and turning ideas into action, all while battling self-doubt and fostering a growth mindset.

More about Megan:

Megan Hale is a scaling strategist for established social entrepreneurs who are changing the world through their work & the founder of the 2% Pledge, a social initiative helping more entrepreneurs build a sustainable giveback into their business. With a background in psychotherapy and bringing a deeply holistic lens to business growth, she's known for helping her clients integrate their wisdom into cohesive offer suites that create more ease and flow. She got her start in the business space by helping entrepreneurs understand the ins and outs of sustainable cash flow design with her DreamMoney™ framework. Her newest venture is building the DreamMoney™ app - a platform that's bringing her entire cash flow methodology to more users providing the key revenue planning tools and business finance insights entrepreneurs need to sustainably scale.

• Instagram: instagram.com/meganhaleco
• Website: meganhale.co
• App: meganhale.co/app

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Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to All Things Private Practice. I am joined today by Megan Hale, and she is a scaling strategist for established social entrepreneurs who are changing the world through their work. And the founder of The 2% Pledge, a social initiative helping more entrepreneurs build a sustainable give back into their business.

She has a background in psychotherapy and brings a deeply holistic lens to business growth, and has been known for helping her clients integrate their wisdom into cohesive offers that create more ease and flow. She got her start in the business space by helping entrepreneurs understand the ins and outs of sustainable cash flow design with her Dream Money framework. Her newest venture is building the Dream Money app, a platform that's bringing her entire cash flow methodology to more users, providing the key revenue planning tools and business finance insights entrepreneurs need to sustainably scale.

So, tell the audience what the hell that means, to among them who are listening.

MEGAN HALE: I love it. Well, I'm so excited to be joining you. As you mentioned, you know, my background is in therapy. And I first made the shift from therapy to coaching back in 2015, so it's been almost 10 years now. And for the first three years, I was really struggling to get that business to take off because, I don't know about you or any of your listeners, but in grad school, I was taught to know people and not necessarily to know business. And I knew that I wanted to help, but I didn't know how to create sustainable growth for myself at all. And so, I had to figure a lot of this stuff out on my own.

And the Dream Money framework that we're going to be talking about today was actually a big component of that, of really being very lost, getting ready to go into one of the hardest years of my personal life, wondering if it even made sense to stay in my business that next year because things have been so hard, and really needing an intuitive way to think about my money, get clear on my numbers, what am I trying to get my business to do, and how am I going to be able to do that in the most sustainable way possible?

And those questions became the foundation for everything that I teach today of really helping people understand sustainable business design where you're able to make the money that you want to make with the time and the energy that you have available. Because going into that very, very hard year of [INDISCERNIBLE 00:03:14], had about like 10 hours a week to work, was getting ready to become a mama to two, under two, while my partner deployed for six months, so I did have a lot on my shoulders. And so, sustainable business that year looked very different with less capacity than ever before.

So, I was able to create one signature, scalable offer that generated one full year sustainable cash flow and not radically shifted everything, which is the foundation for everything I've stepped into since.

PATRICK CASALE: It's pretty amazing. And your story is, you know, not unique to a lot of people listening, where they want to create more revenue, they want to create more income, they want to, obviously, spend less time in their businesses. However, like you mentioned, and we so often talk about on this podcast, grad school did not prepare us, typically, to become business owners. And they kind of talked about, like, shying away from it. And there's so much, like, money trauma and money shame in the therapy profession. And it probably is more so in the therapy profession than others. But I think a lot of people can just relate to money shame and money trauma, in general.

MEGAN HALE: Yes.

PATRICK CASALE: So, can you talk to us about working through that, how that leads you to, like, creating a second app, which for being more, you know, like you mentioned before we started recording, kind of in this whole new world now, right? Like, I imagine that feels really surreal sometimes.

MEGAN HALE: It's very surreal. You know, I remember like in grad school so many of my professors would be like, "You don't get into the field to make money." And that was so drilled into my head that when I became a business owner I said, "But I need to make some money." Like, I'm not trying to become like the richest person in the world. But we still have to make some money in order to, you know, survive, and to live, and for business venture to even make sense.

And I was lucky in the sense that when I did my supervision for all my LPC hours, I actually did that supervision in a private practice. And so, I was able to learn, you know, a few business skills. So, when I launched my private practice, I didn't take insurance, I went cash only right away, I did sliding scale fees, and I kind of figured that part out. And I was lucky to set that [INDISCERNIBLE 00:05:26] fairly easily and quickly mostly because by some grace of God I had a way of making my Psychology Today profile, like, stand out for the people I really wanted to serve. And people came to me because I was, you know, really opening up a very inclusive space in a more, you know, conservative town. So, that was really great for me.

And then, having moved into the online space, there was a very different animal because I was just inundated with lots of messages around what it meant to be successful, and how much money I should be pursuing, and how I was undercharging, and how I must value myself for my expertise. Like, that's when I first learned about money mindset for the first time entering the online space. And when I heard that concept for the very first time, I was like, "Oh, there's some stuff here for me." I had never been aware of it before.

And that's when I started to really look at what are my personal beliefs around money? What have I been taught to believe? Etc. And it wasn't until I had that breakthrough on my business, where I had sustainable cash flow for, you know, a full 12 months that I realized I had been in this fallacy that more money was going to create financial security for me. Like, my nervous system was going to relax. And when that didn't automatically happen I got really curious around what else is going on here? And that's when I started become more aware of, like, transgenerational money stories, and how those were impacting my views of money. I started to become more aware of attachment styles with money. Like, so many things started to open up for me that year. And so much money healing happens because I committed to looking at my money every single day for 365 days, at least for five minutes a day.

That was because [INDISCERNIBLE 00:07:08] 2018, with so much of my personal life feeling very chaotic of having, you know, two young kids with a partner away, meeting my goals around money between like my anchor point of like, okay, what is in my power to control? Like, what is here for me? But that was a deep exploration of really understanding my own story, my own conditioning, family stories, spiritual stories. Like, all of the ways, you know, society conditions us to think about money. And even as a healer, what it means to make good money and be helping people, and that those two points can coexist.

And it was profound for me. And that's actually when I made the shift of like, I think that I need to step into my space and start helping other entrepreneurs do the same because I knew I wasn't alone. And that really became, you know, the whole framework that I was building that year of really understanding my numbers, and my margins, and my revenue plan, and also managing my money. [INDISCERNIBLE 00:08:05] so much more trust and confidence that I knew what I was doing and I could be trusted to earn more money. Like, I knew I could handle it and direct it, and that whole platform, I was at a spreadsheet for years and years and years, and I've always had the dream of trying to get into software where it could help more people and have more functionality. And last year, I actually finally started taking steps in that direction, to start to build that dream.

And so, now I am a brand-new founder as a startup that I never in a million years thought that I would be, and it very much feels like I'm at the starting line and the beginning of a whole new business venture, which it's interesting. So, I'm seeing this whole new identity start to come alive for me.

PATRICK CASALE: That's pretty inspiring, for sure. Hold on one second. Let me get my volume up. Can you hear me?

MEGAN HALE: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: Okay, yeah. That's inspiring because I imagine back in grad school you didn't foresee this.

MEGAN HALE: No. [INDISCERNIBLE 00:09:07] like going into the FinTech space, absolutely not.

PATRICK CASALE: Right. Yeah. And I've seen your journey on social media with like pitching, and the meetings that you've had to prepare for, and how you've had to show up in those situations, and being a female-owned business, and investor, and startup. And it's really incredible to watch. So, I want to give you a huge congratulations on that because-

MEGAN HALE: Thank you.

PATRICK CASALE: I think we all have, like, these wonderful ideas, but so often we have these narratives where it's not for us, or I don't know how to do it, or I'm not capable of doing the thing, or pursuing the goal.

And I like that you said something about, like, getting really comfortable with your money on a daily basis, and getting really familiarized with the narratives and the stories that we have behind money. Because I think, like I said before, there's such an association with the term, right? You say money to a person in the helping profession, what is the immediate reaction? It's probably like cringing, feeling uncomfortable, feeling ashamed to even talk about it. Maybe there's cultural stuff there. Maybe there is some really intense poverty/money trauma, wounding that has happened in the past as well. So, it's all culminates, right?

But I really like that you said something that we talk about so often on here, which is that you can be helpful, you can help a lot of people, and you can make money. Both of those things can coexist, and for a lot of people, they still really struggle with that mentality, however.

MEGAN HALE: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I remember before doing, I would say the grand majority of my healing work, I remember having thoughts of, like, "Why does money even have to exist?" Like, I was so mad about it, because it just felt like it was this thorn in my side that was almost a hindrance of like, I knew that I've had to figure out the money stuff if I was going to be successful at helping people and having [INDISCERNIBLE 00:11:00] business, while simultaneously wishing that it didn't have to be a part of the conversation.

And one of the most profound things that happened in 2018 is I started to notice, like, when I was sitting down daily money wasn't changing because money was consistent. In fact, it was the most consistent thing that year while everything else was what? And some days I would sit down and make my money, and I'd feel really, really anxious, of like, what am I going to find? What am I going to… You know, I was like, that's interesting because nothing with money has changed.

And then other days I would sit down like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to look at numbers. There's this avoidance coming up of like, and what I realized because I was trying to establish some internal emotional control, and I was oscillating between this anxious and avoidant attachment style with money. And I also had the awareness that I didn't really have a nourishing, supportive, positive relationship with money. And that's when I kind of started to reflect on how I had healed other relationships in the past. And me and my dad had a very conflictual relationship as a teenager, we had different love languages, and we both read that book, [INDISCERNIBLE 00:12:06] a huge connector for me to see his love through a different lens. And for some reason, I started to look at money through that lens of saying, "Oh, I'm actually wanting money to show up for me in a way that is in my love language. So, what does it look like for me to get some of those inputs from money right now?"

So, for instance, like, quality time is big for me. So, how can I use this time I'm meeting with my money in a quality way? How can I make that feel better for me? So, being really mindful of my thoughts and thinking about, like, words of affirmation, how I could start layering those and the money felt like I really started nourishing this relationship with money as if it were a person that completely changed everything. I started to feel much more secure in my attachment with money as a result.

PATRICK CASALE: I love that. That's a great perspective take on something that, I don't think we talk about money that way very often in society. I mean, again, feels like a dirty word to a lot of people. And I like that you're reframing it from an attachment-focused perspective. So, that's really unique.

Give the audience an example, like, when you say, okay, so my love language is quality time, and I spent quality time with money. What does that mean and look like?

MEGAN HALE: Yeah. So, I think what one of the first things I cleared down on is that when I was sit down to spend time with my money, it was actually horrible. I hated it. It was not like fun or enjoyable at all. So, what does that look like to actually create time that does have those positive bits that are showing up in the relationship cycle?

And so, for me, I noticed that I would come to those moments, those meetings with money already feeling shameful, already feeling like a financial failure, already feeling just almost like bracing for how money was about to make me feel. And should we even think about that from relationship dynamic perspective, if that's the energy we're bringing to a conversation we haven't even started yet, we're already on guard, we're already on the defense. So, how do we need to shift our energy and our emotional well-being so we're in the best head space to have a fruitful conversation?

So, I started to apply some of just my own like therapeutic techniques, honestly, of grounding myself. And also, starting to weave in like positive regard, like money is not here to shame me. Why do I have to make money? Why do I believe that that's how money is about to make me feel? And then, starting to challenge that idea, what if money is here to cheer me on? What if it's here to tell me how well I'm doing? What if it's here to give me clarity on the next step? What if it's a partner that's already on my side? That I think was the ultimate game changer because up until this point I haven't seen me and money at odds.

PATRICK CASALE: Right. That's a huge point. That's a huge shift, for sure. I also kind of, like, you keep using avoidant and anxious attachment verbiage. And I imagine that for a lot of you listening, your attachment style to money is avoidant. Like, I'm not going to look at it, I'm not going to open my bank account, I'm not going to pay attention to where it's going, how it's coming in. That's not a strategy, right? Like, that's certainly not helping in these situations.

So, I know I've been there before when I've been struggling with money stuff, where I've been like, I'm not even going to look. Like, I don't even want to know. I don't want to know how much I have right now. I don't want to know how much is going out, coming in. And I think for a lot of people, that's probably a default coping mechanism and strategy when it comes to the finances side of things.

So, you've worked through that, you start to build these programs. I know you've done like retreats, and like masterminds, and courses, and lots of cool things around this framework, but now it's really, like, leveled up another tier where it's like, I'm going to take this idea and this framework into the app space. Can you talk about just the emotional side of that process?

MEGAN HALE: Yeah, and, you know, one thing that I'll say is I had to give myself a lot of permission to even start teaching this framework because there was a lot of stories of like, who am I to teach this? My background is in therapy and coaching. Like, what is it that I know about money? And it kind of felt like it was an obstacle or it was a deterrent to when I could brace the conversation, but when I gave myself permission to start teaching it, I really had to say, actually, that's my greatest gift because I don't approach money from a financial background. I approach it in a way that is much more accessible, and welcoming, and therapeutic, in a sense, that it helps other people who also don't have financial background, like, find a place to have a conversation about money that's doable for them.

So, for anybody who's listening who feels like they've gained some wisdom, and it feels like that who am I's are showing up, like, really, really look at the gift that you're bringing to this conversation in your unique lens. Because if I would never have such a chat space, we would never be where we are right now, building, you know, a multi-million dollar software company, okay? And we're at the very beginning stages right now. So, please hear that. Like, I'd put $50,000 into this company. It's not even generating revenue yet, but even being able to be in that place with money where there's so much money safety, there's so much risk tolerance of investing at that level because I know what we can do with that to get it off the ground, right?It also takes-

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely.

MEGAN HALE: …risk. Like, you have to get comfortable with building capacity to take risks and trusting yourself. I wish that there could be guarantees of like every single dollar I've spent is going to come back. But, you know, I've been in business for 10 years, and that's not how it always works. And that's okay. It doesn't mean anything about you. Like we're all learning as we go.

So, when I first started teaching the framework I remember wondering, like, this has helped me kind of help others, and am I creating something that's flexible and adaptable enough that everybody can go through the same process and get their own unique outcomes? And when I started teaching, the feedback was just so positive of what I've never thought about my money from this perspective, I have such a deeper connection and meaning between the numbers I'm pursuing. Because I think one of the things that makes the Dream Money framework unique is that most of us are pursuing like 10k months, or 20k months, or whatever that number is for you, right?

PATRICK CASALE: Right, right.

MEGAN HALE: What the Dream Money framework does is that actually helps you calculate, like, down to the dollar specific anchored revenue goals that make sense for your life, your business, and your financial needs.

And so, when I calculated what I call my [INDISCERNIBLE 00:18:39] for the first time in 2017, you know, I've been pursuing some random six-figure business for three years. And when I calculated my best goal, it was like 96,476. It was close to six figures. But it wasn't six figures at the time. And for some reason, seeing that number it made me realize, oh, I've been pursuing somebody else's definition of financial success that actually isn't totally needed for what my definition of financial success is this next year.

And I think having just those meaningful numbers is it helps you ground down into what you're wanting for your own life and business, or shutting out the noise. And then you get to ask yourself much more strategic questions like, well, how am I going to reach the summer in the most sustainable way possible? That's where all of our revenue planning tools come in. I started teaching this for the first time in 2018, got better ideas, then I taught it again in 2019 for free. Like, just still iterating on this. Like, getting it down path so it can work for lots of different people, put it on the market for the first time in 2020, and we had a really successful launch with that.

And then, I followed our business mentor's advice to take it off to the market and only include it in my other programs at the time. And that was not necessarily like a bad decision, but it wasn't until last year that I actually brought it back to the market and allowed it to be available for the first time. And now it's, like, ready to go into its next iteration of like, the spreadsheets are great. Like, you can get access to spreadsheets right now, but what my vision for this is, is we need more functionality. I want more reporting features for our users to always know what's happening with your money, what's going on with your money, to be able to tell, like, where your revenue is coming from, so you know where to spend more of your time as a business owner, and really understand how to manage your money. So, it's doing what you want it to do, and also, building that financial confidence that so many of us need. It's building that nervous system regulation. So, that's where the software is coming in to build the gaps that we can do with spreadsheets, and then, also, take it so much further, and for how we're helping business owners with their cash.

PATRICK CASALE: It's impressive. That's really cool. Like, to hear you say it like that, and it really gives a really comprehensive idea and understanding of what you're trying to create, opposed to just saying like the Dream Money app, where someone might hear that and say, "What the hell is that?" Right? And ultimately, I think it's really unique, it's really special. You're obviously very passionate about this, and that kind of shines through in not only your content, but just even having this conversation. So, that's really awesome.

MEGAN HALE: And it's also healing for me, you know, and for everyone. And I forgot to mention, this is one of the big components. So, Dream is actually an acronym. It stands for money that's deliberate, reliable, useful, abundant, and meaningful. So, how can we step into these five key pillars? And you know, our software is really bringing all of those tools to do that.

But to answer your question more fully around what it means to be a beginner in this whole founder space, I [INDISCERNIBLE 00:21:45] small business because I've been doing that for a decade, but the startup world is very, very different. Like, a startup is not a lifestyle type business. It's like you go after investors and people investing millions of dollars into your company, and you're the CEO, founder. Like, the whole path is very different, and vast, and big. And I didn't realize that that's what I was building when I started off with all this, you know? And so even just saying yes to stepping into that world and starting to embrace this new part of myself, I'm starting to see just a whole new world of business open up, a whole new world of possibility.

And it's been interesting because I know you've followed probably along the story of, like, what it took for us to win this grant. Like, all the obstacles we had to go through. And just to get to that. It has taken 10 years to get to this starting line [INDISCERNIBLE 00:22:40] at the beginning all over again. But I'm so grateful for the entrepreneurial experience that I'm bringing to this next chapter because I looked at some of these other founders, it's their first business venture ever [INDISCERNIBLE 00:22:54] entirely overwhelmed, entirely. So, I'm very grateful that it took 10 years to get to this new starting line, but I feel ready and prepared in a way that I know I wouldn't have been had I started on this path from day one.

PATRICK CASALE: I love that. That's a great message for people listening because those of you listening who are like, "Who the hell am I to do this thing or that idea feels too big." Megan definitely did not have that idea out of grad school, right?

MEGAN HALE: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: So, like, we talked about… Meg, when did you graduate grad school?

MEGAN HALE: Oh, gosh, 2011.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. So, in 2011 Megan is not sitting there thinking, like, "Yeah, fast forward 13 years, and this is where I'm going to be." So, I think it's all about taking that risk, right? And really pursuing the things that you feel really passionate about, that feel aligned with your values, that you want to pursue. I definitely, like, think about that a lot. I like to do timeline-like zoom-outs a lot of the time. And when I'm thinking like I'm not accomplishing enough, not doing enough, I don't feel like I'm where I need to be. Ultimately, I'm like, in 2015 I was in grad school, like, fucking off, like, really not thinking about any of that. I was just like, "Can I pass research methods. And if I failed, can I get a job in community mental health? And that will be my end goal and my finish line. And like that will give me security, emotionally and financially." Which was certainly not true.

And fast-forwarding nine years from that, you know, it's like, wow, it all starts with that one decision. It all starts with that, like, habit-forming behavior, and it comes with a lot of ups and downs, and it definitely comes with a lot of self-doubt. But for you to even put yourself in this position, and continuously pursue it, and now, like, establish your footing and say, like, this is where I belong, I'm here, I'm taking up this space, I think that's really powerful. So, congratulations on everything you're doing so far and what you're about to accomplish.

MEGAN HALE: Thank you so much. I love exactly what you said. Like, [INDISCERNIBLE 00:24:56] connected with 2011 me, you know, hot minute, and I [CROSSTALK 00:24:59] have a conversation with her. And I'm like, "Girl, like, look at what all has happened."

PATRICK CASALE: I'm intermingling, right?

MEGAN HALE: Yes.

PATRICK CASALE: Like, I said this at my Italy conference when I was on the stage of I did like the zoom out exercise. Do I ever think 2015 me, 2012 me when I stopped gambling with my gambling addiction, like all of the things in my life, do I ever fast forward and think I'm standing on a stage in an entire medieval Italian village that I rented to host a summit for 100 mental health entrepreneurs? And the answer is like, fuck, no, absolutely not. So, it's just amazing what can happen. Even that decision to, like, leave your community mental health job and start your private practice is a risk, it is worth pursuing. And then, you kind of build off of those risks, and you develop that risk tolerance.

So, I like that you said that about, like, this is not your first entrepreneurial venture going into this space, and something that sets you apart is also having that mental health background, right? So, I know so many of you listening are like, "I only think with this degree in social work or counseling I can only do one thing." But that's not true, and your skills are applicable in so many different ways. There's so many different arenas.

MEGAN HALE: So, like, I'm so passionate about mental health therapists getting out there, because our wisdom is so needed, and we have such a holistic way of seeing things because of the way that you've been trained to just hold lots of different variables at once, and you're looking for how they connect. You're always connecting the story. And how does all of this make sense? And how I'm going to help someone move out in this? Like, those [INDISCERNIBLE 00:26:36] can just… And just the empathy that we have and just the way we can create safe space for people. Like, every single person in the world needs those skills.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely couldn't say it better myself. Well, Megan, thank you for coming on. Congrats on everything. Please tell the audience where they can find what you're doing.

MEGAN HALE: Yes. So, the best place to go is we have a calculator we've already developed. It's just there to give you, one, clarity around your minimum viable revenue. So, your minimum viable revenue is going to be a unique to you number that funds seven key financial needs that creates financial stability in your business. And I'm a firm believer every single entrepreneur needs to know this number because this informs your sales goals, your price points. Like, so many big things start to move from there. So, if you want to find out that number for you, you can go to app.meganhale.co. You're going to be asked to put in four unique numbers that are accustomed to your life and business, and then we're going to calculate your amount of vital revenue for you in less than five minutes. And that's all 100% free.

And then, I will be removing lots of other big things out into the world. It's like Dream Money is starting from its own company and grow its legs. We'll have a fundraising campaign that we're doing December 27th of 2024 for people to be our early backers, our early adopters of the software that we're building, so we can make the stream come July. So, be on the lookout for not too.

PATRICK CASALE: It's really awesome. And all of that information will be in the show notes, so that you have access to it, so that you can find out those numbers really quickly, and then start to implement them. Megan, thanks again for coming on and making the time. This has been great.

MEGAN HALE: Of course. Thank you so much for having me.

PATRICK CASALE: And to everyone listening to All Things Private Practice, new episodes are out on every single Saturday on all major platforms and YouTube. Like, download, subscribe, and share. If you haven't gotten your spot to the Scotland, Doubt Yourself, Do it Anyway summit next July, make sure to do that. That's on my website and on social media. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. And we'll see you next week.