Show Notes

What happens when the chaos you spent years trying to understand becomes the fuel for something meaningful?

Patrick Casale sits down with artist, musician, tattoo artist, and creator Bre (professionally known as BR3) for a raw conversation about neurodivergence, creativity, sensory seeking, Autistic burnout, representation, and the complicated relationship between pain and art.

BR3 reflects on behaviors he once understood as recklessness or destruction—including an intense encounter with police—and what it has been like to recognize those experiences through the lens of neurodivergence and sensory seeking. He and Patrick also explore an important complication in conversations about unmasking: being visibly neurodivergent isn't equally safe for everyone, particularly when race and policing enter the picture.

The conversation also turns toward creativity and purpose. BR3 shares how Autistic burnout affected his work, why Patrick's vulnerability helped him put language to his own experience, and how that understanding contributed to the creation of Bops Playland.

3 Key Takeaways:

1. What looks like recklessness may have something deeper underneath it. Between impulsivity and sensory seeking, it can be difficult to understand your behavior when you don't yet have language for what's happening inside your brain and nervous system.
2. Unmasking isn't equally safe for everyone. Race, privilege, policing, and how neurodivergent behavior is perceived can dramatically change the consequences of openly stimming, melting down, or behaving outside social expectations.
3. Creativity can turn pain into connection—but creating from pain has a cost. BR3 describes how artists immerse themselves in difficult emotions to create something relatable, while Patrick shares why he talks publicly about his own struggles: giving other people language for their experiences can help them feel less alone.

More about BR3:

Bre, professionally known as BR3, is a 36-year-old Black music producer, engineer, and tech founder from Macon, Georgia. A Georgia Tech graduate with a degree in Software Engineering and Computer Science, he uniquely bridges the worlds of hip-hop production and enterprise-grade technology.

BR3's commercial breakthrough came with "Forever Dancing In The Rain (Santaze Tribute)" which peaked at #44 on the iTunes Hip-Hop/Rap Chart in 2023. His first charting success "Used to This" feat. Jacquees, charting at #134 on Apple Music R&B in 2018 is still on charts consistently, and "Skuba 3" feat. Sada Baby (Nov 2024).

Bre owns and operates Third District Enterprise, anchored by his Georgia Tech-honed technical expertise.

Bre's empire is built on a deeply personal foundation: his autistic son, Bop. Everything Bre builds—from Bops Playland TV to BopVerse games—is designed to create heroes who look like his son and provide safe, sensory-friendly experiences for neurodivergent children.

"We don't ask permission. We ask forgiveness, or we just win anyway." — Bre's philosophy

• Linktree: linktr.ee/br3music
• Website: bopsplaylandtv.com
• trifectatattoos.zo.space/bops-playland-tv

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Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Neurodivergent Entrepreneur Podcast. I'm joined today by Bre, who is a professionally known as BR3, sorry. I did not sleep last night, so I'm trying to read your bio, and the words are, like, scrambling in front of my face. 

BRE “BR3”: Me either, man. We're in the same boat. You and I are in the same boat.

PATRICK CASALE: We're in the same boat.

BRE “BR3”: [CROSSTALK 00:00:22].

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:00:22]. A 36-year-old black music producer, engineer, and tech founder from Macon, Georgia. A Georgia tech graduate with a degree in software engineering and computer science. He uniquely bridges the worlds of hip-hop production and enterprise-grade technology. Wow, words are weird right now.

BRE “BR3”: Hey, man. I say that actually sounded so good. I didn't know who that was at first. I was like, "Oh my God, this guy sounds great.”

PATRICK CASALE: Well, I mean, your bio is great. You've got commercial breakthroughs with the song Forever Dancing in the Rain, which peaked at number 44 on the iTunes hip-hop rap chart in 2023. His first charting success Used to This, featuring Jacquees charting at number 134 on Apple Music R&B in 2018. And still on the charts consistently, SKUBA 3 featuring Sada Baby, November 24. 

Bre owns and operates Third District Enterprise, anchored by his Georgia Tech-honed technical expertise. His empire is built on a deeply personal foundation. His autistic… God, I can't even say the word autistic. His autistic son Bop, everything rebuilds from Bop's Playland TV to Bop First Games is designed to help create heroes who look like his son and provide safe, sensory-friendly experiences for neurodivergent children. We don't ask permission, we ask forgiveness, or we just win anyway, like that philosophy. Also, love your bio, man. Definitely the-

BRE “BR3”: Thanks, man.

PATRICK CASALE: …coolest guest I’ve had on this podcast, and it's crazy that we connected over a fucking Instagram carousel.

BRE “BR3”: No, I saw some actual cool people on your podcast, you included. I don't think we’ve come that far, but I say I appreciate you, man. It's definitely been one of those things, but as you understand, as anybody neurodivergent, we all know that one hyperfocus can literally change life. 

So, it’s been a lot of hyperfocuses and a lot of autism, a lot of regular thought, a lot of that's been going on, man. And so, far it's been a interesting journey, hard and sweet at the same time.

PATRICK CASALE: And would you say, like, we'll dive into some of the stuff that I wish we would have recorded, but has it felt like it's all been worth it to get to where you are sitting right now today and feeling how you're feeling?

BRE “BR3”: We can be honest with this one because it took a while to realize there's a masked answer and then there's an honest answer.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, we want the honest answer. 

BRE “BR3”: The honest answer is this has not been easy. It has not been easy at all. There are days I'm up. There are days I'm down. Like, this morning, as a matter of fact, whole phone crush. We were talking about it earlier, out of nowhere. So, it's like all of my music, all of my contents, all of my stuff, all I'm thinking is, “Crap, man. I got to do this all over again.” I didn’t say crap in my head, though. But we understand.

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:03:16]

BRE “BR3”: We understand. But it's chaotic moments, and then the chaotic moments trigger on to the rest of the stuff. But they create beautiful moments. And those beautiful moments are what we call the anchor, and what brings us to these moments. So, honestly, yeah, it was all worth it. But sometimes I wonder. Sometimes I do wonder. But it was all worth it, man. 

PATRICK CASALE: That's a good answer. And I don't think you get to where you're at in the charts or with any of your creations being successful, and having longevity, if you didn't put so much of your passion and your soul into everything that you do. And I imagine just from knowing you for 20 minutes now that everything you do, you're all in on. It can't be more had.

BRE “BR3”: All in. Sometimes too much, because when I put it in there, it'll be like, okay, I'm running full steam. I'm running, running, running, and then by the time you get almost to that finish line, you realize, oh, I don't have anything left, but I got to cross the finish line, so I got to drag the rest of the way. But I'm still going to cross. So, it's definitely an all-in thing, man. It's all-in with everything from the music to tech to even just survival living. It's an all-in statement at the moment, so it's definitely something, man.

PATRICK CASALE: That's real, for sure. Living is an all-in experience, for sure. Demands piling up, stress of life, and then navigating some of the things that you and I both navigate with shared experience. So, you're an autistic ADHDer. When did you figure this out? When did you learn that about yourself?

BRE “BR3”: I actually halfway learned first when I was about, I think, around eight or seven. Doctors were trying to figure out, like, you know, he's not hyper hyper. He does a lot of stuff, but we're going to say it's ADHD. And they went ahead and called it that. 

So, at the time, I was playing multiple instruments, about 15 instruments. I had started speaking two languages. I already probably about seven. So, newspaper came out calling it savantism. They corrected ADHD. And so, it ended up coming back later on into my adult life, where I had my child and end up having to be tested, and he was autistic level, what they call moderate at the time, level two. So, which also he's learning new languages, coding, etc. 

Now, so it's again just a title that that they like to put on. But hey, got about that time. And I was like, "There's no way that I'm ADHD, and you're autistic, and we're the same. Let's go find out.”

So, end up going on another trip to my new psychiatrist in Atlanta. Excuse me, went through the stuff. He was like, "Man.” He's like, “Has anybody ever told you or asked you about this?” I was like, "What?” It was like, "You surely give enough signs of autism?” Well, we hadn't finished yet, and he was like, "Well, I'm getting a good picture.” So, I was like, "Okay, well, that's great news.”

But eventually, after going through it, end up finding out, yeah, was dealing with adulthood autism or unmanaged autism at the time. Also, unmanaged ADHD, still same thing. So, yeah, still same thing. 

So, about the 35 ages around that age is when I fully came into the full picture of what everything was, and still to this day, it's like a, I hear them, but it's like, okay, this has been your whole life. So, what is it like for real? Like, do you do you run into it of like, hey, this is a disorder, or this, this. I hate the word disorder.

PATRICK CASALE: Yep.

BRE “BR3”: But that was one of the main reasons that once it was said at that end, it was like, no, let me show you something. 

PATRICK CASALE: Exactly.

BRE “BR3”: Can you prove this otherwise? And-

PATRICK CASALE: A language is powerful, right? And language is stigmatizing. When we use the word disorder, if we look it up in the dictionary, I mean the disorder says something that needs to be cured, or fixed, or eradicated, or eliminated.

BRE “BR3”: Exactly, exactly something that is way out of that ballpark of that bucket of what we're doing. Because if you were to eradicate what we're coming up with, the ideas and etc., half of the world wouldn't be completed. You would have people like anywhere from, and I can go from Elon Musk up to all the way down to questionably Mahatma Gandhi. But in the same sense of so many different people that have done so many different things, and all based on the fact that, oh, disorders were involved in the creation of these things, but in reality, these are just different thought patterns and different ways of life, and etc. We're just in another lane of thought, and that other lane was wide open.

PATRICK CASALE: That's well said. And I think when we reframe disorder to neurological or neurodiverse difference, we start thinking about differences instead of deficits. When we stop pathologizing, and you're in a unique position, man, because I haven't run into a lot of younger black kids who have gotten diagnosed with ADHD or autism, like, very early on in life. And then, to be taken seriously, to be diagnosed appropriately, and accurately. And then, also, like, I don't know of many rappers, or hip-hop artists, or musicians who are out speaking publicly about being ADHD or experiencing the life that we both live.

BRE “BR3”: In this community, Black community in general, it's almost a hindrance if something is “wrong.” Like, it's always you're too sensitive, too loud, too this. You're too aggressive. You're too, what is it?  Nonchalant. Like, what am I? What can I be? 

But it's always that instead of let's find out what's going on. Let's see, are you okay? Are you actually feeling comfortable? It was always an attack on the character instead of, you know, let's help the character. 

So, growing up in it, it more over shies you away from trying to figure it out, but when it's deep enough and a lot going on, and you really need something or need somebody to help you, you eventually figure out, like, okay, screw it. I got to figure out what's going on. I got to talk about this. I got to say some things. I got to see what's happening. 

And the same thing with my son. It was like, okay, I'm noticing too much. And I know how hard it was. Therefore, let me jump on this right now because, as an experienced person who's dealing with neurodivergence, it's like, okay, I got to make this easy as possible because that was chaos. There were periods where I can honestly say it was like I want to end it, and whole time it's because you don't have anywhere to say this or talk, or you just don't have anybody to hug you. Instead, they want to slap you for feeling a certain way. So, it was more of a growth into who I was. It was like, okay, you got to do all this alone. Everything that you do, you can't talk to anybody about it. You can't build it with anybody. 

Like, my brother, for example, my brother helped a lot of me just dealing and doing, like, a lot of these records. The Forever Dancing in the Rain, I would have not done that record if he didn't tell me to just keep going, just keep going. I know he was sitting right next to me, as I was doing it in tears and everything, but you keep going. You got it. You're feeling it because you got it. And it takes that. We have to have our power circle or our people we trust because if we don't have at least one, you go crazy. But-

PATRICK CASALE: For sure. Totally. You know, that's a really beautiful way to model that for your son and to do some of your own, like, inner child healing by saying, "I want to learn more about my own experiences for him, for the rest of the community to show up authentically.”

And I see that alien that's like catty cornered between the two of you. And so often I hear from autistic people, and I would agree with this with my own experience, that we feel like aliens dropped into this planet without manuals, or instruction books, or how to know how to go through life, and without the language, without the understanding. You do internalize it as if I am the issue, there is something wrong with me.

BRE “BR3” Yes, man. And Lord knows, I think that's a reason for a lot of the creation and the alien, for example, this alien has come with us a long way. And the alien represents so much in general. That's represented so much in general because it was the ideals, everything coming out so fast and etc., happening.

But it was like, okay, people wouldn't understand. They're working on this but doing this. They're building this but doing this. This doesn't make sense. It's not going to work. Next thing you know, there's a plaque. There's another. And it was more of the ideas aren't going to be the same, especially coming from where it's coming from. This is not the same kind of brain. 

So, with the mask and the kind of brain, I guess, it's kind of tempered something that almost moves on its own, which is heavy by itself. Because again, my music personality moves way faster than my normal everyday everything, like tattooing. I do tattoos professionally, licensed. I also have my own shop. I have my, of course, singing, registered engineer, etc. All these things that combine into one person, as well as detect stuff, there's always just Bre who has nothing wrong, nothing there. Everything is there. 

Even though all of the songs explain this. It's almost that people still shield themselves from actual truth when things happen. So, my songs, they dance to them, they do, etc. But there's still the whole actual ideas, and questions, and life in the song, saying that hey, I deal with these things, or this is actually weighing me down at the moment, and it's something that I know I got to come up with or get over, but I got to do it in a way that's going to be entertaining enough to not harm anybody's ego or not rub a person the wrong way, or etc. The mask has become built in, so the artist carries, I guess, a mask with it to fix up anything that doesn't exist or anything that does exist that the people don't want to see. And it's almost a, I don't want to call it a project study, but it's almost a study within itself to really realize that, you know, people hear one thing and they only move away from it because of the connotation. 

PATRICK CASALE: Yep. 

BRE “BR3”: But if they actually understood that thing and actually looked into it and find out what it is, they’d understand why they're so curious or why they love it so much. I don't think we're all as different as we really think we are.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

BRE “BR3”: Yeah, we have our neurotypical and neurodivergent paths, but they're still paths of one brain. 

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

BRE “BR3”: It's been a real interesting journey to see it from both sides. You get to see how people feel about you, feel about what you're going through, also what they just feel about, in general, of what's happening around you. And that has been one of the wildest things to me, hurtful, helpful, and sometimes eye-opening.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, that's well said. I think that happens a lot for people who discover their neurodivergence, especially autism and ADHD later in life, where people around you start to say, like, you've changed so much since you learned this about yourself, or you're so different now, or now that you're on this, like you can't participate in life the way that you used to. 

And a lot of people, it's really shocking for them, and you might lose relationships, and friendships, and people who enjoyed your masked self more than your authentic unmasked self. And you have another layer, right? Of like, having a code switch in certain environments and rooms, especially in this country. 

And, you know, my wife, is a woman from the south, and I watch her code-switch as a black woman around her family, around her job when she has to be white Arielle, is what she would call her, or professional Arielle, and an unmasked version at home. And it's got to be so mentally exhausting to have to constantly morph into who you need to be based on surroundings and safety.

BRE “BR3”: And then it's crazy as it sounds. Like, as I saw your tattoo, then I was in the process of saying it. But somebody always asks, like, the tattoos, you can't be, you got tattoos. You got this. You look like this, or such. Like, what? 

But again, it's like the ideal and same thing. When I saw your… The first thing is probably, I don't know, man. I don't know. You're looking really, really cool. It's like it's different. It's almost a personal wall that is put up. 

But in black community, too, just doubling in on what you were saying, that is absolutely correct because there is a thing where we have our regular switch because you get into let's say, a professional industry. And before I was doing directing with, can I even say this right, Geico? There was a big legal issue about discrimination to disability as I won, etc., based on this, but I [INDISCERNIBLE00:17:43]. Let's go back. With that, you have a certain way that you have to speak. You have a certain way that you have to approach it. 

And I've been told, coming in, “You don't look like you work here. Like, the first [INDISCERNIBLE 00:18:00]?” I said, “I don't know, man. I'm a little nervous.” I was like, okay, as a joke, I guess it was supposed to have been a joke, but, you know, when you first hear it, it's like, okay, now I know what to do. I know how to speak. I know how to tell. I know what to do to morph to where you're not uncomfortable. And it doesn't cause me issues here. So, that was code switch one. That's mask one. 

Now, I have to mask that mask so that they don't see that I'm neurodivergent. So, now comes mask two. And then comes when you get on the phones with people. There's mask three to filter out what I'm going to say because sometimes if you tell me something a little off, I might just tell you how it's going, and there's that filter. 

PATRICK CASALE: Love it.

BRE “BR3”: So, yes, man, by the end of the day, I'm taking off mask after mask after mask. I'm worn out. I'm too tired to eat, to sleep, to do anything. And going into the next day, you got to do this again and again and again and again. 

And I tell people all the time that is one of the unhealthiest things that you could possibly do because every day cortisol, adrenaline, having to worry about depression, sadness of never being able to be yourself, never being able to just feel like I'm okay for right now. I'm okay with being who I am. People will love me for me. No, that'll change your whole entire outlook on yourself. So, I always tell people, and my fiancé, being a therapist, also, I tell her a lot of the times when it comes in, we always talk about how recording, as an engineer, turns you into a therapist almost. 

So, it's like, hey, you sit down, you listen to everybody's issues or things that's weighing on them all day long. So, you have to figure out, like, okay, I'm not trying to coach you through this. I'm not trying to push you into the direction. I'm trying to make you see that, hey, you got it. You well off. You can do this on your own. Let's just do a little guidance in here every now and then. 

But it was so funny because her coming into therapy, we were going over Carl Jung and all of his different theories and Sigmund Freud, all of just different therapists or different psychologists, and we were going over the theories, and she was like, "Why do you know this stuff?” And I'm like, "Well, dealing with people, it was my hyperfocus.” I hadn't realized that again I hyperfocus to figure out people, and I went to find the information. 

So, I've deep-dived long enough, and I have a sociology minor as well. I graduated with that, but that, of course, doesn't tip the scales of basically anything mental health. We went into those just teaching her throughout it to get a license. So, I started realizing, okay, you got enough information to go ahead and take the NCE yourself. Like, what is this coming from? But it's like all of this based on hyperfocuses, realizing the mask, the stuff like you said, code switching. I had to learn all these different processes, and all those processes, with just that is so heavy on the brain. It's so heavy on just your daily access to living.

PATRICK CASALE: And disconnects you from who you truly are.

BRE “BR3”: Yes.

PATRICK CASALE: And that masking fatigue, and that separation from self is really fucking painful, and that's why a lot of us find ourselves in the positions that we're in major autistic burnout, where it's like, how did I get here, and how do I get out of this? Because I've pushed myself so far beyond my limits with demands, and sensory overload, and masking fatigue, and now all of a sudden, the walls are crumbling, and all the plates I've been balancing are crashing down around me, and I can't get off the back.

BRE “BR3”: That right there is the wording that I could literally put my life into account of that. It's like a…

PATRICK CASALE: It’s painful.

BRE “BR3”: …toss. And lately, we've been working on the 3DT part, the third district terminal, getting the neurodivergent suite together, the learning suite with the free videos and all this stuff, just so you can have entertainment with the sliders, the color variances, everything to kind of destem you as you're watching stuff. So, we went over a lot of research, looked over 18 empirical papers, went through different research strategies, research papers, ideologies, etc. of how to basically build a curriculum on everything that was going on in the neurodivergent community in general. But basically, for my son, for the most of, and it was building the suite of what do I want you to learn between what is the things that you will need between, or how does the curriculum say between the ages of and you know, it was building from just that and watching him experience it, watching him learn or not learn, figuring out what to take out and just playing with it. 

And now it got to a point where I'm looking at multiple families, and we're trying these things out. And it's a free program, so it'll be stuff for people to just use and go throughout their days, and actually gain from it as they process the day. 

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:23:31].

BRE “BR3”: Thank you, man. Introduced it to some schools as well, so they can see how it is and start using it as well. So, we got it a couple schools down here, starting to build it up as well as we're going, and it's just the fact that it's nowhere. It's multiple places to look for these things. It's just not as centralized as needed for a personal neurodivergence because out of sight, out of mind is a thing. And…

PATRICK CASALE: 100%.

BRE “BR3”: Man, I can lay down something. We were just talking about it, looking for jewelry, and it's like, oh crap. I'm pretty sure I had to move it. I'm hoping that I had to move it.

PATRICK CASALE: Sure.

BRE “BR3”: If not, it's like one of those things. If it's in front of me, I'm okay. So, if we build everything, we put everything into that one suite to have everything right there when you need it at the moment. Put it down when you want to, go watch TV if you want to. All this stuff is in the suite. So, if you have to put something down immediately, that's fine. You don't have to stay on it for this whole hour, or this whole 30 minutes, or whole 15 minutes. You can break this down into little parts because my mind doesn't operate or learn in a long span of time.

PATRICK CASALE: No, it's going to bounce around from idea to idea to association to association. And we, you know, having interest-based nervous systems, right? So, the things that really light us up, that excite us, that maybe in a month no longer do. But what you're talking about out of sight, out of mind, especially for ADHDers, working memory struggles. When I am really depleted, I could feel it. I would be walking around my house. I'll have my phone in my hand. I'm almost like completely dissociated. I'll put my phone down, walk into another room, immediately lose my phone. I'll turn the light on in the bathroom, leave the bathroom, turn around and go. Did I just go in the bathroom? Like, and I'm having to tell myself this stuff out loud. Like, okay, when you're taking a shower, I'm saying, like, “You're putting shampoo in your hair.” And then, 10 minutes later, I'm like, “Did I put shampoo in my hair?”

And these are good signs of depletion and burnout. And when I hit that point, it's already too late. And that's when you have to look, like, drastic reset measures. We were talking about kind of disappearing or fantasies of, like, removing oneself from environments that are not comfortable. 

The summertime for you and I, you mentioned having hyper POTS.

BRE “BR3”: Yes.

PATRICK CASALE: I have POTS, and MCAS, and Ehlers-Danlos. Summer is fucking hell. I want to escape from it. I want to escape from it because I'm so physically uncomfortable that my skill regression intensifies so much that I can hardly get off the couch or out of my bed. 

And as creators, business owners, and entrepreneurs, people see… They only see the creation. They don't see the behind-the-scenes. They don't see the struggle, and they don't get to understand-

BRE “BR3”: [CROSSTALK 00:26:40].

PATRICK CASALE: Exactly. Yeah, it's really, really challenging.

BRE “BR3”: Man, and when I tell you, as weird as it is, I don't know what made me get the first dream of music.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

BRE “BR3”: Because I've learned recently as a musician, you focus on your depression to come up with pieces. And they can be happy pieces, they can be sad pieces, they can be upset pieces, but you always have to focus on that one pain to figure out, yep, how to make it as relatable to everyone, and relating pain. A lot of people don't think about it, but as an artist, it becomes a second nature. You put yourself in the shoes of people. You tend to have that empathy, and you tend to just drive yourself into these situations, simulating it, doing all this stuff, and before you know it, I'm feeling down. I'm feeling torn apart. I don't know why I'm feeling this way, because you just made an album about everything dealing with everything. 

So, it's almost one of those things I always want to tell people, but I don't. At the same time, it's like, be careful. I can tell them be careful because it's not necessarily going to be the way that you think it is. This is a mission to help or to show something. And when you're showing something, you're not always showing the good parts or the soft ends, so it could be also another reason why we don't see too many artists talking about their neurodivergence, or they might just think it's the depression, or have gotten called bipolar by certain diagnosis, etc.

PATRICK CASALE: I've adorned that label incorrectly for a couple years of my life, oppositional defiance disorder when I was a teenager because I was so destructive. Major depression [CROSSTALK 00:28:34].

BRE “BR3”: I don't know, man. I was just bad as hell. A bad criminal. [CROSSTALK 00:28:37].

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:28:37].

BRE “BR3”:  …a good one.

PATRICK CASALE: Listen, I'm going to be very honest. There are things that I've done in my life that if I was not a young white guy, I probably would have ended up in jail very much. 

BRE “BR3”: Hey man, we call it a blessing. I call it a blessing. Whatever we get out of it's a blessing because…

PATRICK CASALE: The helplessness and the impulsivity that comes with ADHD, right? It's not even it's out wanting to be “destructive.” It's just sensory seeking all the time out of discomfort.

BRE “BR3”: Definitely

PATRICK CASALE: And that's why we see more ADHDers in prison. We see more ADHDers in bad car accidents. We see ADHDers, like, really struggling with a lot of self-destructive behavior, including suicidality and completed suicide. And then you [CROSSTALK 00:29:21]-

BRE “BR3”: [CROSSTALK 00:29:21].

PATRICK CASALE: Ooh, this is a this is a heavy life experience, and sometimes I kind of relate to the tortured soul existence of, like everything I do is about putting the pain into the world to create relatability, so that people don't feel so alone.

BRE “BR3”: That's the one, because I've had, just like you said, there are those times in life where it was like, "Why are you doing this?” But whole time, I didn't know I was sensory seeking. Like, as a matter of fact, there's a instance of me on, I think, it's on World Star where I was being chased by Broward County police down Biscayne Boulevard. And I had the whole highway blocked off. 

So, it was more of, I was going through a moment of this looked amazing to the music world, but in my own appearance of what was happening was chaos. It was like, okay, I'm going through this whole time. I think I was on a bike, and I got to look at the video again. I was on the bike coming down the highway, tears. I couldn't see anything, but the whole time it's just me crashing out, doing donuts in these rows. I'm doing whatever I felt like it was okay, the police are here. I don't care. 

PATRICK CASALE: Right [CROSSTALK 00:30:38].

BRE “BR3”: Yeah, it's out of body. It's like at a point of chaos. It's like okay, now you really do need something. You need somebody. I think that was my first record label. The first got with Rough World and Universal. It was at that time. And it was like, oh, yeah. It was before the influencer period of where people were just doing crazy things to get seen. 

PATRICK CASALE: Sure.

BRE “BR3”: It was more of a, oh we got one because we can record this shot. But again, it was a neurodivergent moment of I haven't gained my bounds of I'm just sensory seeking-

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:31:16].

BRE “BR3”:  …regular see what I can do. 

PATRICK CASALE: I don't understand what's happening inside of my body and my nervous system. And admittedly, right, like very dangerous for someone who looks like you when your police are involved.

BRE “BR3”: Very.

PATRICK CASALE: And see a lot of autistic black teenagers, and kids, and even young adults who, unfortunately, violence or death because they're stimming publicly, or melting down publicly, or having these experiences where they can't suppress and mask, and then it becomes very, very dangerous. So, when I see people in the advocacy spaces talking about unmask at all costs, it's like whoa, pump the bridge because there's got to be conversation about privilege and safety. And when can we safely do these things?

BRE “BR3”: Exactly. That’s correct. When can we safely take these off? It's more so unmask it all. That was a fun one. I just thought about-

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:32:11] a moment. I'm sure it was fucking fun, and I'm glad it didn't result in anything else, you know?

BRE “BR3”: And that would have ended it. Or if I could have used that mantra just to unmask it all, this interview would be very [INDISCERNIBLE 00:32:26] right?

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You might be telling a different story, or not at all, unfortunately, exactly here.

BRE “BR3”: Man. 

PATRICK CASALE: Man, I'm excited that you're a tattoo artist because I live a couple hours from you, and I need a new tattoo artist. So, I might be hitting you up for that. 

BRE “BR3”: Come on, man.

PATRICK CASALE: I'm excited sharing your software and your gaming with my in-laws and like, their kids because they would really benefit from that.

BRE “BR3”: Yes.

PATRICK CASALE: They need more people who look like them talking about these experiences because my nieces and nephews are black, and they're younger, and a lot of them are neurodivergent, but they just don't have the understanding. 

And I'm trying to, like, share resources. But if I'm only sharing resources of people who look like me, it's a hell of a lot harder to relate to and to say, oh, maybe that could be my kid as well or my nephew as well.

BRE “BR3”: One side note, when I tell you, I don't know if you know how good of a job you're doing, but man, your speech, your words, they're point on. And I don't know how long you've been going through it, but it's dead on. When I tell you, I saw your first video, and when I saw it, it immediately hit me. I stopped and looked at my fiancé. I said, "I think he's reading my mind.” It was about the autistic burnout. And you were just basically going through the whole story, and I was like, "No, we got to listen to this again.” Your reel became 30 minutes long. I just want to let you know. I don't know why you keep making reels this long, but keep doing it. 

PATRICK CASALE: I can't stop.

BRE “BR3”: For minutes.

PATRICK CASALE: It’s like the context just comes out, you know? I'm like, oh, I didn't add this. I didn't say this. Oh, I forgot about this. And I'm the worst content creator of all fucking time because I can't-

BRE “BR3”: No, you're not because the video was short, but like I said, it turned into 30 minutes for me. So, it was dead on hit after hit. So, they understand hearing it from you. You're bringing it in a way that's mentally understandable. Like, you're bringing it from a root meaning, like you're bringing it from the actual feeling, and way beyond how it looks or acts in society, or how it comes upon us, how we're accepted to it. That root feeling is where it really resides, and if nobody can understand or see that root feeling, then it's chaos. Most of the chaos comes from misunderstanding and sadness. So, yeah, when you're so sad, it turns into anger, then it turns into destruction. You're stopping anger and destruction just by curing sadness in your own methods. And I salute you for that. You need to come for your tattoos for just that? 

PATRICK CASALE: I'm absolutely going to come because, like, I got to finish this Lord of the Rings sleeve that I'm doing right now. 

BRE “BR3”: Whoa, man.

PATRICK CASALE: That's really the main piece because I finished this travel sleeve, which is all photos that I've taken from [CROSSTALK 00:35:16]-

BRE “BR3”: I love it.

PATRICK CASALE: My tattoo artist and best friend unfortunately just got diagnosed with stage four terminal brain cancer, and unfortunately, will not be tattooing. And it's fucking sad. I've done a lot of content about it, anticipatory grief, but life is unpredictable. Life is really short and unpredictable. So, we've got to really make the most of what we've got, and it really sounds like you're doing that to the best of your ability, and even then, some, despite the struggle, despite the exhaustion, despite, you know, dealing with this chronic illness shit that we both have.

BRE “BR3”: Thanks, man.

PATRICK CASALE: So, I just want to really applaud you for everything. And I'm really glad that our paths crossed because now that I know you're a couple hours away in a town that's currently near, but I'm going to definitely come get tattooed. That's my [CROSSTALK 00:36:09].

BRE “BR3”: Come on with it. And I definitely got to come up that way for the air. For the outside in the mountain.

PATRICK CASALE: Well, the mountain summertime right now feels very different after Hurricane Helene. Everything has changed and shifted here, but the fall here is amazing. Like, 50, 60, degrees. The leaves are changing all the time. Like, it's just an amazing place to be. 

BRE “BR3”: I came up for some tubing. I came up for tubing a couple years back, and I loved it. Stayed in the camp. 

PATRICK CASALE: You got in that river?

BRE “BR3”: What?

PATRICK CASALE: You got in that river?

BRE “BR3”: Yeah. See, you weren't there to warn me about this, man. This was trial and error. [INDISCERNIBLE 00:36:46].

PATRICK CASALE: Any of you listening in Asheville, you know that the French Broad River is full of pollutants, and E. coli, and horrific things. So, go in at your own will and your own warning. I've gone in once in 16 years I've lived here. I'll never get in that thing again.

BRE “BR3”: Man. I've been in that one time, I'll say, but with experience, now, with the what I've learned, won't do it again. But we live, and we learn. 

PATRICK CASALE: We do. We do. Well, I want to thank you for this conversation. This has been awesome. I am unbelievably sleep- deprived. And I've felt very energized by it, so I thank you for that. And just sharing your story and being vulnerable enough to come and talk about it. But I would love to hand the platform over to you, so you can tell people where they can find what you've got, and we'll add it to the show notes as well.

BRE “BR3”: Absolutely, any social media easy to find. It is BR3 Music. Every social media. I'm neurodivergent. I got to make it easy for myself to find it. Also, if you want, you can also see the beginning startup of Bop Playland, botplaylandtv.com. This is where we're building it in live action, so you'll be able to see it go for the 3DT processes. 

Also, we have a June 13 calls for calls. It'll be autism and therapy dogs. So, I have a group of people coming out to the Making Dog Park, Tyler's place. There'll be dog trainers. There'll be the adoption there or the adoption agency for the dogs, and we have the autistic schools or autism schools around it coming in also. So, there'll be dogs, fun, food. There'll be programs, STEM events, all types of stuff. And I'm looking for people to come down and talk. Anybody that may hear us or want to, feel free to, you know, champ.  And I definitely need you [INDISCERNIBLE 00:38:50].

PATRICK CASALE: I love dogs, man. You had me at dogs. I can overcome the heat to be around a bunch of dogs that I want to hang out with all day.

BRE “BR3”: That'll be absolute great. Plus, I don't know if you know it or not, I don't know if I said it yet, but you are a main reason that the Bob's Playland actually got finished. I was in autistic burnout while I was watching your video about autistic burnout, and I had got to a point of, I got to take time. I got to take some months. I got to sit down, and as I'm reading and listening to you, it was like a, hey, [INDISCERNIBLE 00:39:27]. It’s like a [CROSSTALK 00:39:33].

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:39:33] you know?

BRE “BR3”: Man, I need to see it. And it was just that moment of like, it was the reality that, you know, you can keep going. He's going through this same thing. I didn't know about the POTS. I didn't know about none of this yet. I just knew that you know what? He's right. He is absolutely right. Yeah, he going to go through these, but keep hitting, keep hitting, and it was right in time. It was right in time. 

PATRICK CASALE: I really appreciate, man. That means a lot. 

BRE “BR3”: No, I appreciate you. 

PATRICK CASALE: I would say like, that's always why I've wanted to just talk about my own struggles is just to help people put words to theirs as well. And I think it's humanizing to talk about this stuff publicly and to talk about it in a way that is supportive of people, in general. So, thank you for that. 

I'm trying to get onto that website. What is it again?

BRE “BR3”: bopsplaylandtv.com. 

PATRICK CASALE: All right, let me try that because I want to add that to the show notes, and I'm going to share that with my wife, and my family members, and some friends because that sounds freaking amazing.

BRE “BR3”: Absolutely, man. Thank you, thank you. I would say anything to really just build into this. We're also doing a 3DT pillar program where we're finding people in the communities that are actually helping community, like just good places, good people. And we're building free programs for them, building free websites, technical access. We're giving them the access that they don't have in the regular community, so we're amping them up to be just as good as the corporate businesses. But we're finding them now, and we're starting to film, and etc. And if you know anybody, please don't tell them, but send them send a name, and we'll get that done too. Good surprises.

PATRICK CASALE: Dude, I'm looking at this now. This is amazing. Like, there's a whole black superheroes thing. There's autism-friendly kids in front.

BRE “BR3”: Yes.

PATRICK CASALE: This is amazing.

BRE “BR3”: And it's only half done, so we still have to add the entire grouping. We're piecing by piecing by piecing, and this is all done specifically right here. You are looking at where all this started.

PATRICK CASALE: Everything that happened here is happening in here. I get it. So, I will say that I think, and I'm this is maybe controversial, that COVID, as destructive as it has been, has been so good for a lot of autistic ADHD entrepreneurs who own their businesses, come home and control our environments, and it's just so freeing and liberating. And it's really been a blessing in a lot of ways, if I'm being honest.

BRE “BR3”: You ain't lying, man. You're not lying. I said it. And I felt bad for saying it before. My fiancé looked at me like, "What?” I was like, "Hey, [INDISCERNIBLE 00:42:20].” So, I’m just saying, don't scare me. But it's the truth. It's like having the ability to separate and just do is without being judged for it is a need.

PATRICK CASALE: I control the thermostat. I control who I talk to. I control the way that I bring the curtains down every day. My wife walks in from work and she's like, "Why is it so dark in here? And why are you watching Lord of the Rings again?” And I'm like-

BRE “BR3”: Again.

PATRICK CASALE: “Get the hell out of it.” This is when I'm in a non-speaking mood. Go away. 

BRE “BR3”: I could talk to you about 30 minutes for that alone. I won't even rule [CROSSTALK 00:42:57].

PATRICK CASALE: Okay, favorite Lord of the Rings character, go.

BRE “BR3”: Mine is Gollum for unearthed reason. Gollum to me, of course, reminds me of Dolby, but Gollum reminds me that, you know, you can be whatever you want to be, you can look like you want to look, do like you want to look, and you still be important in the movie. [INDISCERNIBLE 00:43:24].

PATRICK CASALE: They're making the search for Gollum right now, so that's a thing that is happening. Andy Serkis is directing it. I do like Gollum. I just wrote an entire Substack article that I'm looking for about the AuDHD experience as Gollum and Schmiegel, and how Gollum is very much the ADHD side for me, and Schmiegel's like the autistic side that doesn't want to be perceived, put the ring on, disappear, get away from it all. And Gollum's like plotting, and he's like, "What things can we, like, destroy and create?”

BRE “BR3”: It’s like, "Give Mr. [INDISCERNIBLE 00:44:00].

PATRICK CASALE: It's like, oh my God. I just did a vowel renewal in Hobbiton with my wife. I was in New Zealand for a month hosting two separate retreats there, so I stopped. 

BRE “BR3”: Everything weird, I'm on it. Gizmo is on my chest at the moment. 

PATRICK CASALE: I love that. I'm going to send you this thing in the chat right now. This a Gollum Schmiegel article that I wrote all about the AuDHD experience.

BRE “BR3”: That’s crazy.

PATRICK CASALE: I mean, the main actor who played Sauron in Lord of the Rings, the original movies, I met him randomly at a bar in Portugal a couple of years ago. We became friends, and he's from New Zealand. And he came to my vow renewal a couple months ago. He came out for a week and, like, signed autographs for people, and shared, like, behind-the-scenes about Ian McKellen and Orlando Bloom. It was amazing. 

BRE “BR3”: Oh, man. Look, man, we got we got plenty, we got [INDISCERNIBLE 00:44:54] We got plenty.

PATRICK CASALE:  I think that sounds right. But I'm going to let you go. I really appreciate you guys being here.

BRE “BR3”: We’re glad to know you're tuned.

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:45:03] mile away, let's stay in touch, man. This has been really wonderful.

BRE “BR3”: Absolutely. And I'm going to send you info about the eventologist stuff. And I got to pick your brain even more because I did not know you had anything dealing with the science fiction world. 

PATRICK CASALE: Okay, let me be clear. I don't like science fiction, but I love fantasy. Like-

BRE “BR3”: [INDISCERNIBLE 00:45:26]. I'm about to say the ones that make more sense [CROSSTALK 00:45:29].

PATRICK CASALE: Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones. Like, I can't tell you how many times I have watched the Lord of the Rings movies and watched Game of Thrones and House of Dragon.

BRE “BR3”: Oh, man.

PATRICK CASALE: And excited for the new season coming out in June, and then the new Rings of Power season coming out in August. I could talk about this all day.

BRE “BR3”: Oh, man. Then don't. We're working on figuring out how to make an anime of that nature. So, don't let us figure that out within the next few… Have a tattoo first.

PATRICK CASALE: Let's talk about it. I'm your help.

BRE “BR3”: Oh, man. [INDISCERNIBLE00:46:03].

PATRICK CASALE: Okay. this is a great example for people, if you're still listening, I know this has been a longer episode than usual of what happens when you get two neurotypes, similar neurotypes, talking about shared interest, and then all the stigma of autistic people can't socialize. Get the fuck out of here. You just have to have right the right conversations and the right types of brains. So, anyway.

BRE “BR3”: Absolutely.

PATRICK CASALE: I appreciate you, man. And thank you both for both for being on here. And I'll let you know when this comes out and stay in touch, please.

BRE “BR3”: Yes, definitely, man. Thank you. I got to stay in touch. You like a literal another half. I'm saying it's random as it is. Like, where did you come from?

PATRICK CASALE: If you ever want to come back on, you're more than welcome. Like, this is one of the most enjoyable conversations that I've had in a really long time.

BRE “BR3”: Definitely, man. Same here. Same. Thank you for that.

PATRICK CASALE: I hope you find that jewelry, too.

BRE “BR3”: Oh, yes, bro. Thank you. Talk to you soon, man.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. All right, everyone. Thanks for listening to the Neurodivergent Entrepreneur Podcast. New episodes are out on Wednesdays on all major platforms and YouTube. You can like, download, subscribe, share. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. We'll see you next week.