Episode 38: Don't You Dare Keep Yourself Small: Follow Your Bliss [featuring Jane Carter]

Show Notes

This episode is packed with metaphors galore! Starting a small business is scary but that doesn't mean it can't also be fun.

Playfulness inspires creativity, as well as motivates, energizes, and fuels entrepreneurship.

In order to live the life you want to live you need to take risks — to fall down, dust yourself off, and try again.

In this episode, I talk with my good friend, Jane Carter, about small business fears, failures, lessons, and how to work through all of them by following your bliss.

We discuss how to find the joy in the unknown of private practice ownership and ensure your entrepreneurial story is filled with playfulness, bliss, and freedom.

Find whatever your version of bliss is, follow it, and create the entrepreneurial life you really want.

More about Jane Carter:

Jane Carter is a counselor and business coach who is committed to helping therapists and other solopreneurs have more money, fun, and freedom in their businesses. She lives in the mountains of Asheville, NC, where she’s an outdoorswoman, coffee-shop connoisseur, and local-beer snob.

She offers a free Clarity Call to discuss people's goals for their practice, and to see whether her individual coaching/mastermind may be able to help them. She also does free "Q&A Café" sessions on Zoom, and free in-person "Mighty Friday" masterminding sessions in Asheville, NC.

Jane's Website: www.janecartercoaching.com (see "Free Resources")

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A Thanks to Our Sponsor!

I would also like to thank The Receptionist for iPad for sponsoring this episode.

Are you tired of running to the lobby to see if your next appointment has arrived? Would you like a more discrete, stress-free way for your clients to check in?

Take a deep breath — The Receptionist for iPad empowers your practice to create a Zen-like check-in experience.

It's the highest-rated digital check-in software for therapy offices and behavioral health clinics, used by thousands of practitioners across the country.

The Receptionist for iPad is a simple, inexpensive way to allow your clients to discreetly check in, notify providers of a patient’s arrival, and ensure your front lobby is stress-free.

The software sends an immediate notification to the therapist when a client checks in, and can even ask if any patient information has changed since their last visit.

Sign up for a 14-day free trial of The Receptionist for iPad by going to thereceptionist.com/privatepractice, and when you do, you’ll also receive a $25 Amazon gift card.

Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Are you tired of running to the lobby to see if your next appointment has arrived? Would you like a more discreet, stress-free way for your clients to check in? Take a deep breath. The Receptionist for iPad empowers your practice to create a Zen-like check-in experience.

This episode of the All Things Private Practice Podcast is sponsored by The Receptionist for iPad. It's the highest-rated digital check-in software for therapy offices and behavioral health clinics, used by thousands of practitioners across the country, including, Dr. Ajita Robinson, our guest on this podcast back in episode 29.

The Receptionist for iPad is a simple, inexpensive way to allow your clients to discreetly check-in, to notify providers of a patient's arrival, and to ensure your front lobby is stress-free. The software sends an immediate notification to the therapist when a client checks in and could even ask if any patient information has changed or needs to be updated since their last visit.

Sign up for a free 14-day trial of The Receptionist for iPad by going to thereceptionist.com/private practice. When you do, you'll also receive a $25 Amazon gift card.

Hey everyone, you are listening to another episode of the All Things Private Practice Podcast. I am your host, Patrick Casale, here in Asheville, North Carolina, joined today by another Asheville, North Carolinian friend and colleague. She is a LCMHC and Business Coach, Jane Carter. And Jane and I are going to talk about making being an entrepreneur and private practice owner fun because we lose sight of that I think when we are kind of exiting our CMH jobs or wherever the hell we're coming from when we're kind of nervous, and anxious and insecure about the process. So Jane, thank you so much for being here.

JANE CARTER: It's my pleasure, I'm so glad to be here with you.

PATRICK CASALE: And Jane is probably a couple miles down the road, and we run into each other often, and do a lot of similar stuff. And Jane, I remember telling you, like, you came into my grad school program at… I can't remember what the actual class was and spoke to us about being an entrepreneur and going into private practice. And I remember, like, listening to you and be like, "Yes, there is a different way." Like, I don't have to do the things that all of my grad school professors are telling me to do, so I just want to say thank you for that like back in 2014, or 15, or whenever that was.

JANE CARTER: You're welcome. Little did I know what would transpire? Does that mean that [CROSSTALK 00:02:23] credit for all that you're doing?

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, you can… I'll put like a trademark or like a patent-pending next to that, like, All The All Things Private Practice Success Inspired by Jane Carter-

JANE CARTER: Thanks, Patrick.

PATRICK CASALE: … patent pending.

JANE CARTER: Now, I'm so proud of you, I'm so impressed with all that you've done. And that actually really touches me, that makes me feel so good, showing up in the grad school classroom and just kind of doing my cheerful, "And yeah, it's fun you can to do it." That that actually created some inspiration and that, you know, you following your own bliss has then created something that's really helping many, many people. You know, it's trickling out to so many lives. So, I'm a little humbled and having one of those heartwarming feelings right now. So, thank you for sharing that with me. I totally forgot that you were in that class. But you did. You did come up and talk to me later about that. So, thanks.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, you're welcome. And it's been really cool to see your business take off too, because I know you were in private practice at the time. You and I have actually rented the same office and the same office location and are friends with the landlord. So, that's a really interesting full-circle moment right now. I promise [CROSSTALK 00:03:34]. Yeah, that's the Asheville way. We're so lucky here. And for all of you listening, I'm sorry if where you live is not this way. Like, we have so many awesome people here that are either in private practice or just entrepreneurs in general. And I think, to live here you kind of have to be because there is no industry other than being an entrepreneur or working in food and beverage. So, it makes sense.

JANE CARTER: Yes, you have to bring your job here or make it your job.

PATRICK CASALE: Right.

JANE CARTER: Yeah, that's your-

PATRICK CASALE: Jane just alluded to her like playful energy and like that cheerleading energy. And that's definitely the vibe I always get from you, is like, even seeing you at a wedding recently, where you were definitely, like, really enjoying it out on the dance floor. And like, I was just watching you-

JANE CARTER: [CROSSTALK 00:04:16].

PATRICK CASALE: … I don't have any pictures or videos, but it was really like-

JANE CARTER: What? Because you could…

PATRICK CASALE: It's nice to see that too, though, you know, because I can't do that stuff. Like, I am not that person and I struggle to be, like, in front of people doing things like that. Like, I can do other things that other people really struggle with, but letting go and being playful in front of the public, that is not my strong suit. And like, you and I were going to talk about like working through perfectionism too. And I think that has to be a major, major component of how you do that by just incorporating play.

JANE CARTER: Absolutely, absolutely. And I want to point out that you are in front of people being playful, and I mean I just looked at your Ireland photos, and you have the biggest smile on your face, and you're listening to music, and dancing, and you know, the playfulness, it isn't always going to be kind of what we would assume playfulness is. I think about private practice being fun in a much larger sense too of just following your bliss, like, following what lights you up.

My favorite quote is Joseph Campbell, "Follow your bliss and doors will open that wouldn't have opened otherwise." And I don't even remember what the original question was except I want to say that, you know, when we say, "Okay, I have the spark, I want to go into private practice." Or you know, "Pursuing this appeals to me, pursuing, you know, travel and adventure is lighting me up." Or, you know, "Getting out on the dance floor and cutting a rug that's lighting me up, and I'm going to go pursue it." You know, of course, our fears come up in the meantime.

And one of the best ways to overcome that fear, whether it's perfectionism, or imposter syndrome, or whatever, is to tap into the fun, kind of the, oh, well, let's just lighten up a bit and just bring a spirit of playfulness, and curiosity, and what's going to happen, and can I do this dance move? Are they going to laugh? Maybe they will, maybe they won't. And yet, that's the only way we can actually get better at it, you know, and get more comfortable.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I think that's really spot on. And I like what you're saying playfulness doesn't have to look a certain way. Because I think everyone lets loose a different way and can kind of step into just being more relaxed, and more centered, and grounded, and just connected. And I think we need to find those things in our lives, especially, professionally, when so much of ourselves go into becoming an entrepreneur or private practice owner.

I still know a lot of you therapists out there that are like, "I'm not an entrepreneur, but I own a private practice." I just want you to know that you are an entrepreneur if you started your own business, but thinking about the why behind it too, right? Like, yeah, why do I want to work for myself? Why don't I want to work for someone else?

And there's such a mass exodus right now from community mental health and understandably so. But I think sometimes we don't understand the motivation behind it. We just know, like, I've got to get out, and this is exhausting, this is burning me out, like I am destroying myself, so I just need something to be different. And we miss the point where it's like, like you're saying, this should be fun, this should be a fun experience, networking, connecting, content creation should feel fun, it shouldn't feel like an intense chore of something that you're not really looking forward to on a day-to-day basis.

JANE CARTER: And I love what you're saying about, sometimes we start with, well, I know what I don't want anymore. I have to get out. And one way to tap into that kind of capital P spirit of play. Because again, play it's not just being a cheerleader, and yay, you know, sometimes playfulness is, I want to just read a book for five hours straight in front of the fire, but that feels so relaxing, and that feels like fun and play for me.

Anyway, so part of that spirit of play is if we look at this journey of starting a private practice, or you know, creating whatever business you're creating through the lens of a story or of a movie. You know, again, Joseph Campbell, who did the quote, follow your bliss, and he created the whole hero's Journey idea. So, you know, a lot of the time the hero leaves their comfort zone, not when they just go, "Oh, this would be a fun adventure." Right? But sometimes the thing that gets us off our butts and you know, out of our comfort zones and actually trying to even figure out what it is that we want is starting with, here's what I don't want, I'm angry, I'm tired, I cannot take it anymore. Or you know, my sense of justice is offended. We can definitely start with the no before we figure out what the big yes is.

And I use the analogy sometimes… One of my weird quirks is I come up with really weird analogies on the fly and I haven't really perfected this one yet, but I was talking to one of my coaching clients the other day and she said that, "I don't know what I want or I don't know what my ideal client is." And I said, "All right, if we start with what you don't want that's a big start, and it's kind of like if you're wanting to follow the yellow brick road, but the whole thing is covered in like leaves, and you know, pine straw, and trash, and grass, right? Like, first you have to like brush off the trash, and the grass, and the… you know, if it's been neglected, first, you have to clean it off and go, "Okay, I don't want that stuff." And at some point, when you start just brushing a path you see this little glimmer of gold, right? And you kind of go, "Oh, there's something." And you clear things off even more, and you clear things off even more. And eventually, you're like skipping along the yellow brick road, go and follow the yellow brick road, you know? Have your epic adventure, but it didn't start that way. Again, weird enough it is. Does that make sense?

PATRICK CASALE: That makes perfect sense. I'm just laughing at you describing it. But it's a gift to be able to do that, to be able to use imagery and analogy like that. But I agree 100%. Like, because when you talk about finding your niche, finding the ideal client that you really enjoy working with, the ones that really light you up, sometimes people have almost a shame response, right?

JANE CARTER: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: Of like, but I want to work with everybody. I should have to. I was conditioned to believe that I need to see everybody that comes in the door. And there's a lot that comes up for therapists, especially, when you're talking about like, who do you not want to work with? And that is a really important question to ask yourself in your business, because you're not getting into private practice ownership or small business ownership to recreate your corporate or agency environment, you're doing it to free you up, to feel more energized, to feel more passionate and fulfilled.

And I highly doubt you feel that way when you look at your calendar or your schedule, and you can see that like client A is eight years old, client B is 60, client C is dealing with something you don't even know anything about. And you're like, "Oh, shit, I don't know how to help these people." And, you know, it's not even about do I know how to help, it's like, am I really passionate and energized to do this? And without that, that's when burnout really starts to like rear its ugly fucking head, right? It's like, "I don't enjoy what I'm doing anymore." And very quickly we can fall into that trap.

JANE CARTER: Absolutely. Oh, there's so many people who've just recreated their agency experience, but within their private practice, and I'm laughing, but it's really sad. And so, when we have that awareness we can avoid some of those pitfalls. And yeah, I mean, you can't be everything to everyone, or you will be nobody to no one. And I'm now locking in on this analogy of the Wizard of Oz. Actually, The Wiz was my favorite as a child, which was the Quincy Jones, anyway, more of there was like New York in the 70s version. But anyway, I will stick with the Wizard of Oz, because more people are familiar with that.

Okay, think about, I mean, that movie had enough side trails to me growing up where I think it was hard to hold my attention. But if that were the movie and Dorothy was like, "Okay, I'm not just going to have these four friends or three friends that I have this journey with or that I help?" Well, first, we need to figure out the lollipop league and the lullaby guild or whatever, you know, and then, we need to go over here, and then, you know what? Let's go trim the forest. You know, we need to cut down some of those trees. And then, we need to plant some more forests over here. Like, it would be the most meandering. I mean, this movie could go on forever, but a good movie has focus where it says, "Okay, what's the story? What's the goal? What's the aim?" And is this just going all over the place? So, I'm just checking myself.

PATRICK CASALE: Keep going, I like where you're heading. So, use the creative energy to kind of like go wherever this train of thought is going right now.

JANE CARTER: Okay. But I mean, I think you get what I'm saying that like a good story starts to come into focus as it goes, and you may not know what is going to happen in this story. Like, what in the world, this is the weirdest thing. But then you start to see the themes and you start to cut out. You know, they take a movie, and they take it to the editing floor, right? Cut pieces out, you know, anyway, so all that to say, like clarity and focus of mission matters. And you can get that when you pursue your bliss, when you pursue, again, what do I not want, but then what's lighting me up? What's making me spark? And can I solid that?

And for therapists, especially, we tend to have this thing of, you know, well, you can't have what you want, or you can't want what you want? How dare you? Someone's going to suffer. But I would actually flip it on its head and say we need you to want what you want. Your ideal clients need you to pursue your bliss and to work with the people who light you up. Because if they don't fit that they need to be with someone who's going to be, you know, sparked and lit up working with them, and you might be robbing them of that opportunity, right?

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a really important point. And I think that we're doing a disservice to clients when we are just trying to see everybody because we feel obligated to or we've been almost conditioned to believe that we have to. And in reality, if that client doesn't light you up if they don't feel like, "Oh my God, I can't wait to see this person today." There's probably another therapist out there who is feeling that way. And it's really important. And that's why connection is so important, right? Like, that's why networking is so crucial, because then I know like, "Oh, Jane, really likes to work with client A, B, and C. I know I can send those clients to her confidently knowing that she really, really does great work and really loves this population." opposed to like, "Hey, does anyone out there have availability for someone with this insurance, who can be seen at this time, who does this thing?" And people are like, "Hey, I guess I'll give it a go." Like, I don't love that. And I think if we can't show up with our best selves, because we feel the most energized and most passionate, then we're doing a disservice not just to the client, but to us.

JANE CARTER: Absolutely, and here's the thing, too, is that following your bliss, or like following your fun, so it serves the client, it serves you, you know, it's good all around, right? It's not always easy. But what helps with that process, too, is the more you lean into your youness, like the more you lean into your own weirdness, or your own peculiarities, or this is what really, again, what lights me up, you know, what am I bringing to the table as an individual? So, that's where, I mean, it might show up as having a really small, clear niche or ideal client, but it also shows up in, you know, what's my personality? You know, I mean, I was listening to your episode with our common friend, Marisol, and, you know, a fashion therapist, she followed her bliss, right? And you're following your bliss with travel, right, and incorporating that.

The more you're able to say, these are the ways that I don't quite fit in, the easier it is for the people who really need you in particular to find you. And that is a service to them. It's like putting out the bat signal where they're like, "Oh, that's where you're… okay, you're over there, okay, I know where to find you now." Because you are leaning into what makes you you versus being the bland like, yeah, I guess I'm just doing, you know, yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: Another great use of imagery with the bat signal. I think that's spot on. Another funny thing is Marisol was also in my house like an hour ago, because-

JANE CARTER: No way.

PATRICK CASALE: Ariel, my wife, and I are both working with her on like different things with the business that she has in regards to a fashion therapist, right? Like, and that's the thing, who the hell even knew what that was besides maybe her vision to say, "This is something that I think I could help people with and this is something that I'm truly passionate about." But being able to do that unlocks that creativity, because it lets you light up, right?

And I got back from this retreat from Ireland, it was the first one I've ever done. Great success, really grateful, exhausted, all the things, but several people in my circle are like, "You look so happy right now, like you look so satisfied." And I thought to myself, I was like, "Damn, you know, I really am, because I get to combine my passion and love for travel, and connection with other people and bringing them to these places they may never have gone before." And that just feels surreal to say, I get to do this and get paid for this, because like this is amazing.

JANE CARTER: Patrick, I cannot tell you, I mean, this happens with counseling and with business coaching. I can't tell you how many times I've finished the session, and just been like, "This is just stupid, that I'm getting paid to do something that is so much fun." You know, and I really do celebrate and try not to take for granted that I cannot believe I get to do work that lights me up so much. And yeah, again, when you pursue the joy you start to even pursue other pieces of it. So like, you started with private practice, right? And then, from there you went, you know what else I like is this, and you know what we could do, you know, it's not like you just have the one goal and pursue it, like all these other doors start to open, and then, these huge possibilities happen.

So, I have another story I want to reference and give full credit to Seth Godin who's just a marketing maven. He was talking about the Icarus myth, which, you know, there's a reason certain stories get passed down for millennia. And if you recall, the Icarus myth was, I can't remember the dad's name but he made these waxen wings for his son. And he said, "Okay, now you want to go fly, you're going to be flying, have fun. Don't fly too close to the sun or your wings will melt." And we love to do the imposter syndrome thing of like, if I fly too close to the sun my wings will melt and I'll die, you know? I better not be too prideful, I better be careful, let me play it safe.

But Seth Godin pointed out that people often forget the second half of that which was, but don't fly too low, because if you fly too close to the ocean waves the mist will weigh your wings down, and surely you will die. And, you know, so the other piece of it is how dare we stay small? And I don't just mean small like having a small private practice, that might be someone's flying close to the sun, right? Like, don't you dare keep that bliss to yourself and say, "No, that's not for me, or I'm not allowed to, or…"

You know, if you have a spark, you really may need to pursue that and there may be a lot of people out there who need you to pursue that spark. And it certainly makes for a better story, you know? I mean, the Oscars were last night. I didn't watch them, I'm not into it anymore. But you know, think about all the movies that would be so boring if someone was like, "Oh, I want that, no, the end."

PATRICK CASALE: That's such a good analogy and comparison, because I think we do think so much about, I need to be humble, which I like, you know? Humility keeps me grounded. But I also want to feel accomplished in a lot of ways and if we don't take risks, if we don't take chances, if we don't, at least try to pursue those passion projects to see what can happen, the odds of us living that fulfilling value-aligned life are pretty slim. And so many of us convince ourselves that we can't be successful, or our great ideas are not suited for us, but better suited for somebody else. And that's really painful to witness. I see it a lot and that's where a lot of my coaching is helping people work through that.

But I think I noticed it in Ireland with a lot of the people who were there, because the theme going forward is my motto, which is just doubt yourself and do it anyway. Because anytime that fear comes up, that anxiety, you kind of know you're on the right track. But I would not have known that if I had never taken a risk in the first place. I would have played it safe, I'd probably be dead at my agency job, I was already ending up in the hospital. But like, if I had never left, right, to say I'm going to pursue something more risky. And I do think entrepreneurs are more risk averse. It's just in our nature. And I think we get bored easily a lot of the time. And it's cool, because that leads to creativity. But the more risk you take, the more you see it through, the more you realize, like, I can do this. Maybe it's not successful, maybe it doesn't work out. But ultimately, just doing the thing allows you to feel more bold the next time, allows you to kind of tap into that strength and that resilience and to say like, "Okay, last time I did this, it wasn't successful, but I learned A, B and C from it. And now I'm going to implement that or I'm going to pivot." And I think that's really beautiful.

And I'm thinking about, like, your statement about like the movie would be over in three minutes. It'd be really boring. Like, a lot of people who do coaching with me always ask me like, "What's the picture above your head?" I'm like, "Oh, it's a Hobbit hole. I love the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings." And I think about if like Gandalf never convinces Bilbo to go on the adventure, and he stays small, which is his instinct, he rips up the contract, he's like, "No, this is too dangerous." And he wakes up the next day, and he's like, has this epiphany moment of like, "I've got to run out the door and do this. Because otherwise what is life all about?" Like, it's all about the adventure, it's all about taking the risk, it's all about trying to do something outside of your comfort zone.

JANE CARTER: Yeah, and I love that. And it does involve risk, and it does involve failure. It doesn't always go smoothly. Again, the Lord of the Rings, it wasn't like… and then, they went and they put the ring in the fire, the end. I mean, so much happened. It was really hard, and there was death and destruction. And so no, this is not going to always be easy, and there's no guarantee of success. But in the process, I do think it helps us to kind of hold things a little more loosely. You know, we kind of have to pry our fingers off that cliff of certainty, like, I talk to a lot of people who are leaving an agency or leaving a job, and you know, wanting to go into business for themselves. And it's like, they're just clinging to the edge of the cliff, and I know that cliff because I clung to that cliff for three years longer than I should have. And I'm just like, we're just prying their fingers off the edge of the cliff.

And a couple of things happen, you know. First of all, they're holding things loosely, obviously, but I'm trying to help them go weeee, [INDISCERNIBLE 00:24:46]. You know, even though we don't know how far down it's going to go can you go weee, and like enjoy the process, and go, well, this is exciting. But then, the flip side is so often the cliff is about three feet deep, where you go, oh, this was actually safer that I'm actually showing up in a way that's much more me and this is so much less, you know, burnout inducing, and it's joy getting to make more money, and man that was so scary, and yet here we are. That wasn't such a bad thing.

And, you know, even if you do have a venture that you pride yourself off the cliff, and you go weee, and you splat, you can always be like Wile E. Coyote. Oh, you're mixing so many metaphors here. We can be like Wile E. Coyote. You know, he always started with the [INDISCERNIBLE 00:25:36]. You try something else/ Oh my gosh. I watched way too much TV as a child, so I'm all over the place. Sorry I'm laughing at myself and I'm seeing you laugh. But again, it's not just…

Okay, so it helps you hold things more loosely, because yeah, the next time you try something you're like, may or may not work. But I'm not clinging to everything so tightly and trying so hard to play it safe and requiring certainty.

The other thing is for other people, for the people who need you, and who need your uniqueness, you are getting closer to being able to be there for them. So yes, this is about you. And it's okay to want what you want. But also, this is about the people who need you. You know, the other weirdos who are weird in the same way that you're weird. Oh my gosh, I'm going to do another media reference. Can I do that?

My favorite video from the 90s is Blind Melon, No Rain, if you remember that? It was a little girl with a big costume and she's like dancing in front of everybody. And everyone's laughing at her or ignoring her. I get chills every time. She turns out… she finally, you know, after just she's so sad, and lonely, and dejected, and she's this awkward little nerdy girl. She suddenly, you know, opens these gates and there's a field full of people dressed in big costumes dancing. And they're all weird in the same way she's weird.

And I get chills from that, because, you know, there are people in my life that I call my field of dancing bees, that I'm like, oh, y'all are weird like me. And you get my particular brand of weirdness, and we get each other in a way that no one else is going to get us. You know, like college friends and stuff like that. But also, it's true when it comes to creating the business you want to create when you start kind of showing up in your bee costume. You're going to be so happy when you [INDISCERNIBLE 00:27:34] so they're dancing bees, and they're going to be so excited to find you, where they're like, "Okay, someone gets me, right?" But you can't just be this, oh God, pun not intended, you're not going to do that if you're just kind of playing it safe and being bland, right?

PATRICK CASALE: You're not.

JANE CARTER: The caveat too, I want to say, for some people their uniqueness and their brand might be showing up in a way that we would consider very conventional. You know what I mean? Like, it might be that they're the very, like, I don't know, traditional dress-

PATRICK CASALE: The Angela's from the office.

JANE CARTER: Yeah, that might be how you want to show up, that might be your uniqueness, is, you know, I'm very muted and quiet, and I read these books, and I go deep in these ways. It doesn't all have to be, "Look at me, I'm amazing." You know? Again, it's leaning into your youness, so whatever that is.

PATRICK CASALE: I really like that and I really like that when you're saying this, like, about the bee costume and like your group of people that are in your corner, you kind of light up so none of you are going to see this video. But, you know, Jane's face really shifted when she was talking about that. And I think that's so spot on, is like when you find your people when you find your inner circle, so to speak, it's really easy to kind of also create and also create like group momentum, which can serve as a catalyst to really start to put more out to the world because you've got these people who get you, see you and have your back. And also, will tell you like, "No that idea, fuck it sucks and we think you should edit it or tweak it a little bit."

You know, I have a mastermind group and anytime I'm creating something on Canva I send it into the group because one of our people is a marketing SEO specialist. And one of them is an artist, and they'll be like, "No, I think the color scheme needs to be different or like the content… the font needs to shift." and I'm like, "okay, okay, okay, I've never thought about that." But it's good to have those people in your corner.

And referencing the hero's journey again, like, having the guide/mentors and the people around you that can kind of push you out the door, but also, are going to be there with wisdom and shared experience, I think, is really crucial. And whether that means business coaching, whether that just means mentorship, whether it means supervision, but having those people in your corner, because I think that allows us to create and tap into the best versions of ourselves. The more we can surround ourselves with people who have walked the walk, talked the talk, they don't always have the answers. They at least show up authentically. And they'll show up in times of need or in crisis, but they also are going to help push us outside of our comfort zone because they see something in us that maybe we don't see ourselves.

JANE CARTER: Yeah, and you get to be that person for them. You know, I mean, I think about one of our first deeper conversations you were talking about some imposter syndrome and that kind of thing. And here you are helping people with imposter syndrome left and right, for example, right? Or like, one of our first conversations was about private practice and now here you are not only in private practice, and running your practice, but you're helping people create that entity so that they can then serve other people. Like, you get to be that person for them, you get to be the field of dancing bees for other people. Doesn't that feel great?

PATRICK CASALE: It does feel great. When you were saying that I'm like taking it in and it's amazing, you know, because it goes back to what you were saying about the journey, and you don't always have clarity around the journey, though, right? Like, I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur, because I value the things that most entrepreneurs value, like travel, freedom, more money, flexibility, time, all the things, right? And creativity, throw that in the mix, but like I didn't know where that went. I just knew private practice was the next stop. And I think private practice for many is going to be the final endpoint. And for some, it's just going to be one exit off the highway.

And sometimes you're going to make that U-turn, sometimes you're going to circle back around, like, sometimes you're going to doubt yourself, break down on the side of the road, and then, fix your tire and move on. But like, you've got me so creative right now, I'm going to make some TikToks after this. But, you know, like, I never foresaw community mental health feeling major imposter syndrome and self-doubt going into private practice, questioning myself at every turn, like and a bad client interaction, "Oh, I'm a shitty therapist. Oh, the phone's not ringing." Whatever the case may be, to private practice coach, to group practice owner, to podcast host, to retreat host. Never in a fucking million years did I see that journey or that path.

So, for those of you listening wondering if you should take that first step, I encourage you to take that first step, to take that fucking leap, to jump, to let yourself fall off the cliff so to speak, like Jane is talking about. And even, like, you having so full of imagery. I was watching Encanto the other day, and thinking about like when Stephanie Beatrice's character is chasing Bruno through the house and she falls into the hall. But then, it's like two feet deep. And they're like mist clears and they're both like, "Ah, this isn't that scary. Like, this isn't that deep." And I think that is so reflective of what actually happens when we start to become entrepreneurs. Like, yeah, it's scary, yeah, it's anxiety-producing, but like, it's not a pit of despair, either. It is just like these little holes here and there and these obstacles that sometimes you fall down, and you brush your knees off, and you get back up, and you keep kind of pet bowling.

JANE CARTER: And I come full circle and I promise I did not plan this. But, you know, sometimes the metaphor comes back and gets you. I'm going to come full circle to the whole Wizard of Oz thing, because I truly believe it's not just about the end goal, it's about who we become in the process. You know, if you had left community mental health and had a successful, you know, everything you're doing right now within a week, it would be like "Uh." Or, "This is totally overwhelming." right? But it wouldn't be a very interesting story, right? But it's the journey along the way, and how it changes you, and how every time you have to take a risk and you realize, "Oh, I am courageous." So, you know…

In the Wizard of Oz to the lion, she's like, "You had courage all along and you didn't know it." And then, the Tin Man, "You do have a heart." And the scarecrow, "You absolutely have brains, look at all that you did."

You know, sometimes it's developing skills, but a lot of it too is uncovering what we already have and realizing, oh, there's power in that and there's value in that. And so, much of it is just practicing and trusting what's already there and going okay, "What if I'm enough?" Or, you know, "If I just put more practice into using this thing I already have, you know, again, not only could I get what I want and get further along the road, but I'm helping other people in the meantime." I mean, I keep stressing this, people need you to be you at and you're going to become more you along the way. So, I absolutely think that building your private practice is a therapeutic process.

PATRICK CASALE: Yes, I couldn't say it better myself. But I'm glad we went back to Wizard of Oz imagery and metaphor. But you're so right, it is about the journey, and how you kind of get shaped and molded throughout the way because you develop as a person, which helps you develop as a professional and there is heartache. I mean, there is definitely suffering sometimes. I mean, I definitely remember questioning a lot of myself in the first year of private practice. It's normal if you're feeling that way out there. Like, it's your first year, you're even considering it, you're struggling, like, you question yourself, you question your decisions. That's totally, totally part of the process and it's part of the journey. And you really don't know where that journey is going to lead in 2, 3, 4, 5 years, you just don't, and just stay the course, and hopefully, if you're able to have support, mentorship, coaching, guidance, whatever you need, but make sure you're surrounding yourself with people who are going to allow you to be you and give yourself permission to do the same. And also just have fun with it. I think that's the message to take away. Just have fun with it. Like Jane said, chase the joy, chase the bliss, and just remember why you're doing this in the first place. And, you know, Jane, I want to just thank you for being on here, you made me laugh.

JANE CARTER: Yeah, I'm so glad that it made you laugh. And again, okay, I'm going to be meta, but like, this is really fun for me. I love talking about this stuff and I appreciate you giving me the chance to talk about it, because I followed my fun and now I get to do this thing that's really enjoyable. So, I always love our conversations. But-

PATRICK CASALE: Thank you, thank you, and tell everyone where they can find more of your coaching and where to find you on social media so that they can connect with you. And just for everyone's sake, that will also be in the shownotes. You'll have that information in multiple places, too.

JANE CARTER: Awesome, so my website is janecartercoaching.com. And I have a few freebies, I do some free coaching events. I have a free download, Five Ways To Make More Money in Your Business Now, which even though it's like how to make more money, it's very mindsety too and it's really how to enjoy this more. And my Instagram handle is @janecartercoaching.

PATRICK CASALE: Easy enough, nice, and straightforward. Maybe you need to rebrand though, because like all this Wizard of Oz talk, like, you know-

JANE CARTER: It's so hard not-

PATRICK CASALE: And I feel like-

JANE CARTER: [CROSSTALK 00:37:25] she's really, you know, like, you know, Wizard of Oz, you're [INDISCERNIBLE 00:37:28] coaching, I don't know. I would [INDISCERNIBLE 00:37:21] metaphor too much. I do a lot of Harry Potter metaphors too. And I was like, maybe I'll do a whole coaching around Harry Potter. But anyway, I'll just choose it.

PATRICK CASALE: I actually, listen, I hate Harry Potter. I've said this on this podcast before. My wife loves Harry Potter, she hates Lord of the Rings. It's a house divided, but she would also say that's because I'm a slither in apparently, but that's not the point.

JANE CARTER: I feel her about this. This is [INDISCERNIBLE 00:37:58].

PATRICK CASALE: But I think that you could do something like that, because I think people are so attracted to thematic mindset work because you can really step into that childhood experience of playfulness, right? Like, if someone was like, "Hey, man, I've got this Lord of the Rings coaching program I'm launching. Do you want to be a participant, or a beta tester, or like anything involved?" And I'd be like, "Yes, how much money do you want and where do I send it?" So like, you know, actually you just gave me a really good idea.

JANE CARTER: Okay [CROSSTALK 00:38:32].

PATRICK CASALE: All right, cool, cool, cool, cool.

JANE CARTER: …adventure and can I come to New Zealand with you?

PATRICK CASALE: What? Oh, my God, that's exactly what I was just thinking

JANE CARTER: I just read your mind. We might be [INDISCERNIBLE 00:38:45] dancing bees because I think travel is also one of my things, so yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: Travel is crucial for me. And I think if anyone is still listening, what you just witnessed is how playfulness and energy is contagious, but it also unlocks creativity. Because now my brain is like going a mile a minute, like, "Ooh, when you get off this podcast, you should record a podcast on topic A, B, and C and you should create this retreat in New Zealand for Lord of the Rings enthusiasts and travel lovers." So anyway, follow your joy, follow your bliss, follow that passion, know that it's going to be scary and that that's okay. Doubt yourself and do it anyway, and we'll see you next Monday.