Episode 52: S*x, TikTok, Travel, & All Things [featuring Jessica Cline]
Sex is one of those subjects that many people are afraid to openly discuss in public, let alone on TikTok for anyone to see, but some sexologists are stepping into this territory, making history, and going viral.
In this episode, I talk with Jessica Cline, a board-certified sexologist, travel therapist, and "sexpert" influencer on TikTok, about embodying openness on the level of "the things I talk about with my friends, I put out there." She shares her story and philosophy on social media and talking about sex, and how that has allowed others to open up conversations and get support on topics that many people are afraid to bring up. She also shares how this openness has led to a booming career with many opportunities to work with major brands, projects, and celebrities.
More about Jessica (phased by her in the most perfect way):
I'm a double board-certified sexologist—yes, that's a real job and a degree. 😛
I'm certain I am on a watch list due to my google searches. 😳
I'm known as the sexpert to the stars- A) because I'm a celebrity sex therapist, and B) I'm a Jungian depth psychoanalyst and I integrate astrology into my sessions. ✨
Last year, I was approached by a producer for Bravo, and we recorded an intro for a celebrity sex therapy show~ it has not been picked up. 😒
I'm the resident sexologist for a male health app.
I've been featured in Bravo, Insider, Bustle, Cosmo, MindBodyGreen, Romper.......and more.
I live in Wisconsin....brrr☃️ but I'm testing out the digital nomad life for the next year. I've been a traveling therapist for about five years and have had many amazing experiences while also working.
I have a 19-year-old daughter who I dropped off to college in September, and I'm figuring out who I am as an empty nester. I'm fairly certain Gilmore Girls was secretly based on our life.
I was married, but it essentially ended on the honeymoon and now I'm travel dating. 🥴
Creatively I play the harp 🎶 and I paint abstract paintings—one of which was on CNBC this past year.
Jessica's Website: jesscline.com
Jessica's TikTok: @theintimacyexpert
🎙️ Listen to more episodes of the All Things Private Practice Podcast here
🗨️ Join the free All Things Private Practice FB Community
A Thanks to Our Sponsor!
I would also like to thank Diversion Center for sponsoring this episode.
If you are looking to tap into a cool niche that can take your private practice to 6 figures or more, check out my guy Derek Collins at courtmandatedtraining.com. He helps licensed therapists expand their practice by working with court-mandated clients. So if you are burned out, and tired of writing notes and dealing with insurance companies, I highly recommend that you check out what Derek has to offer.
He can show you how to get paid cash every day through court-mandated evaluations and classes like anger management, domestic violence, substance abuse, shoplifting and theft prevention, and more.
This niche could be the breakthrough that you have been looking for.
Go to courtmandatedtraining.com and watch the free webinar to get started.
PATRICK CASALE: Hey everyone. If you are looking to tap into a cool new niche that you can take your private practice to six figures or more, check out my guide, Derek Collins at courtmandatedtraining.com.
He helps licensed therapists expand their practices by working with court-mandated clients. So, if you are burnt out, tired of writing notes, dealing with insurance companies, I highly recommend that you check out what Derek has to offer.
He can show you how to get paid cash every day through court-mandated evaluations and classes like anger management, domestic violence, substance use, shoplifting, theft prevention, and more. This niche can be a breakthrough that you have been looking for. Go to courtmandatedtraining.com and watch the free webinar to get started. Remember that is courtmandatedtraining.com
Hey everyone, you are listening to another episode of the All Things Private Practice Podcast. I'm your host Patrick Casale, joined today by Jessica Cline, who is a double board-certified sexologist, and travel therapist, entrepreneur, TikTok influencer, and just really wonderful force in the industry. And I'm really glad to have you on here today.
JESSICA CLINE: Yay, I'm so excited to be here, to chat sex, and TikTok, and travel, and all things.
PATRICK CASALE: Sex, TikTok, travel, and all things. I think I just got the podcast episode title, like, immediately, which is a relief. You know, I've been following your journey on social media and just seeing, like, the momentum that you've been creating and it sounds like a lot of that has to do with not only, like, being yourself, and being really real, and front and center, and being willing to talk about things that make some people really uncomfortable too.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, yeah, you know, I met Terry Real and he said, "In therapy, you should be yourself." Like, the things that you go and talk shit about your clients to your friends, or your colleagues, you should be saying to them. And I kind of just took that broadly. Like, the things that I talked about with my friends, I put out there, my struggles, I put out there, my successes, my wins, I put out there, and I get a lot of shit for it, because people are like, "Jess, you shouldn't brag." Is it because I'm a woman I'm not allowed to brag? I'm not really sure. But I've just really gotten real over the last two years.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, and I love that. I mean, I definitely try to follow the same model. And I think you're right, you do get shit sometimes for, like, talking about the successes. But I think the flip side is a lot of people aren't willing to talk about the darker sides of the struggles too. And I see you doing that a lot. I give you a lot of respect for that because I know that can be a vulnerable process. So, you know, tell us about the wins, tell us about, like, the struggles. Like, what did you refer to yourself as the other day in terms of TikTok right now? You've put something on your social media about like…
JESSICA CLINE: Oh, yeah, yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: Something… what did you write?
JESSICA CLINE: So, mindbodygreen, I collab with them quite a bit, and they reached out to me, and they called me the queen of vibrators on TikTok. I have not made a single vibrator video because those get taken down, but somehow, I'm just kind of known as the Queen of Vibrators. So, I'm going to add that to my resume. Instead of sexologist, it'll just be queen of vibrators, and then, I'll have an army.
PATRICK CASALE: That sounds good and like, that caught my attention, obviously. And like, I think, what I was just telling you off the camera, like, your bio actually reads really in an exciting way instead of like a boring resume type structured thing where you're like really naming, like, these experiences, and you've been doing a lot of cool stuff. Like, I was just looking at your bio, and I was like, holy shit. So, you are, you know, collaborating for, like, reality shows, you're like on men's health apps, you're doing all of these things that most therapists don't even know could exist for themselves in terms of their skill set as entrepreneurs in general. How did this all start?
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, I was a traditional therapist for years. I wore sweaters even. I think everyone graduates with a little cardigan that they have to wear, especially, if you're in Wisconsin. And it was so boring. So, I just became myself, and it really has expanded into, like, you know, my ADHD works for me. So, in a way I can collab, and I could do this, and I could do that, and I could still have my practice.
So, it's been really helpful, but I really think it has been this, like, self-permission to do whatever the fuck I want in my career because there are a lot of therapists that will say that's unethical. Show me in the line, like, where that's unethical. It might be different than your values but by no means is what I do unethical.
PATRICK CASALE: I do run into that a lot. I see the unethical word being thrown around by a lot of therapists and not only the Facebook group I moderate, but mainly across the board. And I think you just hit on something so important. Like, it may not be within your values, but that does not mean it's unethical. And I think that's really, really important to think about and kind of process because we're so quick to say, like, something's unethical if we don't agree with it.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, it's usually just fear-based or it doesn't meet someone's values and they're so used to saying ethics that it's like a quick go-to. And I usually either just ignore that, or I say, "Show me where that is." Like, it might be different than how you view your career, but it's not unethical. So, usually, I'm just very direct.
I think I've gotten to this point because my first career was in business and finance. So, I have a degree in business before I went on to become a therapist. So, I really approach my practice and my career, like, through a lens of business first, and I think many therapists are therapists first. And that makes them an excellent provider, but a shit business owner. And, you know, they have a really hard time, like, projecting, like, what they could be because there's so much in the therapist's role and as a caretaker for their client load instead of a visionary.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, that's spot on and I see that all the time in the therapist coaching that I do, where you're so firmly entrenched in, like, this one lens and this one identity, and hard to separate into the two camps of like, if you're going to start a private practice, you're a business owner, right? And like, having to make sure that you can walk both lines, and like, you can still be a helper and a business owner. And those both have to kind of connect in order to be a successful business owner. Otherwise, you're going to burn yourself out because you either have some poor boundaries around money stuff and struggling with like, the business side. Like, I hear marketing is sleazy, networking sucks, like, I don't want to charge.
And it's like, you can do whatever the fuck you want to do. But if you want to have a business that runs and you don't, you know, ask yourself what's next after 15, 20 years of doing this work, right? Like, then I think you really have to be able to understand that side of it, too.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, these practices are essentially lifestyle brands. They just support our lifestyle, and so, I viewed it as not only is it to support my lifestyle, but I'm going to pull my lifestyle into my brand. And that's why I'm on TikTok. And that's why I'm out in the media. And that's why, you know, I've got articles about sex positions.
And, you know, it moves away a little bit from therapy, but there's good education there, there's good visibility there. I would rather be on TikTok providing really good quality content and education to everyone that is viewing that sort of stuff. And I got, you know, millions and millions of views, versus someone that's giving information that's inaccurate, or incorrect, or feeding into more of the hysteria.
So, you know, so many therapists are like, "Oh, you know, like, people are now self-diagnosing on TikTok." Who gives a fuck? Like, you don't need to moderate them. But, you know, then join us. Like, rise up and provide good content as well so that, you know, these people are hungry for connection and information, and what a way to be able to do it.
PATRICK CASALE: I like that. And I think there's some accessibility there if you are able to, you know, kind of download so much information in such short little, like, spurts and clips from all of these people who are on these platforms. And you see, like, these two camps of either I'm going to embrace this, and I'm going to, like, understand why this is important and powerful, or it's like, I'm really anti-this, and this is unethical, and I just don't think therapists belong on this platform. And I think before TikTok it was like, "Therapists don't belong on Instagram." And like, there's always these debates, right?
And ultimately, at the end of the day, I think we're seeing like a new wave of psychotherapy, which is really cool to see like, people leading the charge and be like, "No, we can do things differently". And if I can give out really great information to the masses, who maybe could not like, pay for my services, or even are in my estate to work with me, I think that's a win in a lot of ways. And like you said, also helping your brand and image at the same time.
JESSICA CLINE: Absolutely. Like, the reason I'm on a Male Health app is because they saw me on TikTok providing fast, fun content specific to men about, you know, sex and sexuality. And, you know, so I acquired that contract. I make probably an extra $25,000 a year making like two videos a week. My rate is like $200 a minute, so [INDISCERNIBLE 00:09:50] out of the therapist's seat making information for, you know, a Male Health app and now I'm, you know, the resident doc for their program. So, how cool to be able to do that and better myself financially, and timewise, and creation-wise. And then, also, to be able to, you know, partner with them and provide really good education to all of their subscribers.
PATRICK CASALE: That's great. I mean, and then, when you say $200 a minute, like, it has to start getting you thinking about, like, if TikTok is going to create, you know, some financial leverage, how do I start, like, actually qualifying and quantifying my rates for 30-second videos, minute long videos? Like, it's not something I had ever thought about before. So, it sounds like for you, this whole new, like, virtual era has really made your brand just elevate to a new level too.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you're going to be on a platform, and you're going to put your time and energy into it, please have a plan of how you're going to monetize that. Otherwise, you're just farting around on TikTok and you're lost in the sauce, and suddenly you own a murder robe, and a champagne gun, and feel like, "What am I doing here? Jess, I've lost money, I'm not making money." So, like, have a good plan of how you intend to monetize your time on those platforms.
PATRICK CASALE: It's good advice. And I'm thinking about, like, some ridiculous shit that Dennis and Frank made on Always Sunny in Philadelphia when they're like trying to monetize merchandise at their bar where it was, like, shooting shotgun blast of liquor into people's mouths.
But yeah, you're so right. And I had, I don't know if you know Jeff Gunther? But he owns TherapyDen, he's on TikTok, he's a big name on there.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: And we were talking about monetizing, and, you know, he said he turns down offers all the time, but he's got over a million subscribers and followers now. And like, I don't think monetizing TikTok was even on someone's radar, you know, obviously, before the app exists. But in general, for therapists who are really trying to conceptualize, like, oh my God, I can use the skills that I have, the knowledge that I have, and also have fun doing it and make money.
I mean, for so many people that doesn't even feel possible. I don't even think they can really start to understand how that could be a thing. So, that goes back to what you said about Terry Real, right? Like, being real with your therapy clients, being real in these situations. It sounds like that has actually really propelled a lot of your career going this way.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think we are looking for authenticity more now than ever, especially, post-pandemic. I mean, are we truly post-pandemic? I don't even know anymore. I think it's just pandemic forever. So, I think people are looking for legit authenticity. It used to be, like, therapists felt like they needed to be up here, they needed to be perfect, they needed to be wise, they needed to never get divorced, all this sort of shit. And because they felt like their failure was almost a failure as of being a therapist. And I think we've moved into a place where now we can share with authenticity and still be excellent, wonderful providers. So, I think people are looking for that more now than ever.
And, you know, it brings us back down with people working through their lives versus we're here, and they're here, and they got to pay for our services. And you get that one hour. That's it. I think it just humanizes us.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I mean, I'm all in on that. And I always have been. And I think that, you know, a lot of people will probably say, and maybe to you as well, like, authenticity disclosure is self-serving in a way. And I don't think that's the case. And I think that you're actually normalizing the human experience by saying, like, I'm a therapist, and I struggle, I'm a therapist and I, you know, have experienced A, B, and C.
And like, I have clients who reach out to me who listen to my podcast, who follow my stuff, and are like, "This has really normalized, and created the light at the end of the tunnel because if you're struggling, and you're a therapist, and you, like, put on this pedestal, so to speak, then it's okay for me to struggle too." And like that's, that's not uncommon, or unnormal. And I'm like… unnormal, Jesus! Like, that's what I get for watching Ozark till 3:00 in the morning. My brain is, like, moving so fucking slowly right now.
But in reality just, like, normalizing the experience, and I think that authenticity goes hand in hand with that and disclosure too because, again, you're breaking down these barriers and you're creating more accessibility by being yourself, by being open, and by having these types of authentic conversations where clients can really, like, almost feel instantaneous connection and rapport with you before they've even almost met you or even had a conversation with you.
JESSICA CLINE: Right, right. I used to feel like, you know, I think we all got out of school feeling like we couldn't disclose anything. Pictures in your office? Well, no you don't want people to know what you do or what you're like outside of this damn office. You're not even supposed to drink coffee or Mountain Dew because, you know, psychoanalysis that says something, all you get is a cup of water. So, it really was that we were, you know, like a ghost in the therapy room. Like, we truly weren't ourselves.
And, you know, I've moved towards, you know, we talked about my kid my. My clients know about my daughter. They ask about her. Their kids pop into our sessions. I've seen more cat butt holes over the last two years than ever before. Like, we're in this together so it's okay if you know things about me.
And as a sex therapist to, you know, disclose more about my own sex life like that is really freaking scary, but it normalizes the experience for others. And normalizes that we have these shitty scripts that we tell ourselves about sex, we have anxiety, we have all these sorts of things. Sex gets put on the back burner. Like, the more that I talk about it in my life, or what it's like today, like, the more that people can really see like, oh, you know, this is normal and there are ways to get help around this.
So, you know, I think, like, for me, TikTok has been, like, it's curated, of course, content, but it's also, like, sharing my life with people. I mean, I really think of it like Sex in the City. Like, I show them my wardrobe, I show them my shoes. Like, how much do we love? Like, that was the four or it was like the other personality within Sex in the City was like this, you know, fashion. So, I bring them right into all parts of my life. And I think it's really fun.
You know, I brag about my travel, I cry about my travels sometimes when I'm stuck in Vegas and have to sleep on the floor somewhere. So, it's so different from how it used to be when I felt like I couldn't even have pictures of my family.
PATRICK CASALE: Such a good point to kind of reflect on, like, what it's like to come out of grad school, be told this is how we're supposed to move through the world, this is how we're supposed to be viewed to now where therapists are talking about sex on TikTok, and like the transformational experience… I imagine that has to feel so freeing to you. I know there's got to be a major vulnerability there. And like, just knowing that, like, I'm sharing myself with the world and I'm willing to do that because I know what the greater good is here. But like, it's got to feel freeing to just say, I can show up, and be myself, and really help people in a different type of way.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, there was a really good, you know, something that I read. Like, one of the most debilitating things is image management. Like, we're so therapists, like, we're like managing our image all the time. And the more that we can just throw that out, like, I think the more that it'll come to you really.
You know, I posted about my own feelings about my plastic surgery, and I had so many worries about having plastic surgery, and I had already shot a pilot for Bravo. And I'm like, are they going to be upset if my face is different looking? Like, what's that going to be about? But I had so many more comments or messages from people about how they've had their plastic surgery, or they want it, or like, they hate the way they feel within their body. And, like, you know, I'm all about having a healthy body image. But I'm also, like, if you want to change something, and it feels true and healthy to you, you know, you can do that.
So, sometimes, like, my struggles actually open a window to a lot better conversations through people, but they still do it not out in the open. So, it's still like they message me versus leaving a comment because they still don't feel like they can be bold and share anything.
PATRICK CASALE: It's such a great point. You know, the ability to show up in all parts of yourself and the good, the bad, the painful, you know, and it's not always glamorous, right? Like, there's a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff that's really painful about being an entrepreneur and therapreneur, and whatever we want to fucking call it these days.
But having this following, creating, like, this brand, I think there's such a mental disconnect. Like, there's this cognitive dissonance in the therapy world of like, again, going back to both can't exist, right? Like, both can't be true. And the fact that you're able to name this stuff that's really painful for you and really real for you and even discussing, like, this is the narrative inside of the head because of this messaging we've received, right? And then, having people message you because they're like, "This really landed for me, this was really impactful."
And I get that too. You know, like, I talk a lot openly about, probably, too much about all struggles that I've had, but like, more recently, like, being autistic, always have talked about my gambling addiction, and like when I write about that stuff, and the pain that it's caused, but like also helping provide, like, this normalization process for people so that we can reduce that shamans stigma through our platform because, yes, we are therapists, but we're also looked at as like successful business owners. So, I know that I have a reach there.
And I'll get DMS, I'll get texts, I'll get emails where it's like, "I can't put that out to the world yet, but I appreciate that you did because it allowed me to have that, like, aha normalization moment of like, oh, shit, it's okay to feel this way, and it's okay for me to feel embarrassed, or shameful, or like, there's still a lot of stigma around it." So, I think that's a really powerful component of what you're doing, especially, in the niche, like, that you're in because there's so much shame and taboo and stigma around sex still and it's 2022.
JESSICA CLINE: Right, yeah, yeah, sex and money, like, broadly talked about, but not intimately talked about? Like, you're still not supposed to ask someone how much they make. Like, why is that rude? Like, I literally asked my psychiatrist, "How did you pay for that?" And someone was like, "That's rude. You're not supposed to say those things." And I'm like, "I want to know." And so, I've just kind of liked that.
But, you know, I think we've started to talk about things in a broad way, but we haven't really talked about what it's like in our lives, in our homes, you know, that sort of stuff. So, sex and money is still something that's very closeted.
Yeah, so, I guess I'm a rebel. I like talking about things that are taboo, things you're not supposed to talk about. Like, every time I go to a dinner party, well, I mean, like, I don't go to many dinner parties, I guess. But every time I socialize, like, and someone finds out what I do, like, it's immediate. Like, people are approaching me and talking to me about it.
I was literally having surgery and when the person that puts you to sleep, an esthetician or what? I don't know what it is, but she found out what I did, and she literally kept me awake a little bit longer to talk about sex. The IV's in my arm, I'm laying here like this, and I'm just like, "Please let me go to sleep here." And she's like, found out what I did and started asking me, like, what's the most common thing? And I'm like, "Good Lord, can I get a break here?" And so, yeah, I mean, I'm pretty popular, yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: I guess that's the flip side, though, right? It's like there is a cost to this, of being willing to kind of break the mold, so to speak, about things that people aren't talking about, is that it's going to create that, like, interest, and that excitement, and that almost like, oh, I want to talk to you about this thing because nobody else is really doing it. And then, there you are, like, about to have surgery and answering questions about your profession.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, yeah. I mean, at airplanes I always lie, "I am an accountant, I am this, I am that." Like, you do not want to be stuck on a plane for hours and someone finds out you're a sex therapist. Like, there will be no rest, there will be no rest.
PATRICK CASALE: No, I imagine not because I've been in that position before just even as like, "Oh, I'm an addiction and mental health therapist, or like, I help therapists build their businesses." And then, all of a sudden, it's like, oh, fuck, eight hours of my life is going to be dedicated to, like, having a conversation with someone I can't get away from.
But I imagine that there's an exhaustion process to that too. Do you ever feel like that? Because right now, I've been feeling like, the more following I've created, the more people want your time, right? And if you don't have good boundaries around your time, it can feel really, really exhausting, as if it's like inescapable from this constant, like pressure to respond or, you know, show up, or answer questions. Do you feel that way at all with all the stuff that you're doing?
JESSICA CLINE: Oh, yeah, there's a heaviness to being out there in this way. And I'm not the best, you know, with my ADHD. Like, if I get a message and I don't respond immediately, guess what? You might be in the black hole now or you're never going to get a response from me. And it's not because I'm an asshole. It's just that if I didn't write it down and make a list that I needed to get back to someone, like, it's not happening. Or three months later, I might remember I'm like, "Oh, that's kind of rude of me to respond three months later." They might be in a whole new relationship, who the hell knows?
So, I mean, you definitely have to have boundaries. And I think that people need to think about that before they even start, you know, to have this big brand, is like what are your boundaries going to be ahead of time? You need that foundation before it even happens. And I think people try to place a foundation after they've already gone somewhere. And it's so hard to break things back down and like, work on the, you know, the basement of your house, essentially, is what you're doing.
And I've always had it where I only see clients Monday through Wednesday, and then, Thursdays are usually my content creation mode. Doesn't always happen. So, I've really gotten into, like, batching stuff, my YouTube channel will be batch created and that sort of stuff.
So, I started to like, create a rhythm in my week. And sometimes, I fall off the place of the Earth because that's just, like… I mean, and I come back three weeks later, I'm like, "Hey, y'all. Like, I've been gone?" They're just used to it by now. They have to accept me as I am because, you know, I am out there providing a lot of this stuff for free. It does take a lot of work for me to create, you know, videos that are on contents that are meaningful to people. So, I think people really are forgiving and very understanding. And sometimes we're harder on ourselves than we really need to be.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, that's perfectly said. And I imagine a lot of people listening to this have similar processes and feelings about, like, not being able to show up the way they want to show up. And I can resonate with the comment you just made about the foundation. And I am one of those people who did it the wrong way because I don't think I ever expected to have any of this created or even have a following. Like, I don't think I ever… it was just not in my mirror two years ago, and now here we are, and I'm like, "Shit, I based a lot of this on being that responsive human being who, like, is always available." And now I'm like, "I can't do that. It's just too exhausting."
So, like, Jessica just said, if you are creating something, if you want to create a brand, think about how you're going to show up, how you're going to respond, especially, if it's on TikTok because engagement is so important, right? So, like, if you're not engaging with people who are commenting on your videos, or you know, responding to things in the comment section, you're trying to mess with the algorithm, you're trying to make sure that more and more visibility exists. And if you just go silent, it's really challenging to do that. And as your following gets larger, it's going to become more overwhelming at times.
So, having that structure to your week, whatever way you need it is really important. Otherwise, you're like, flying by the seat of your pants, switching roles throughout the day. And like, that can feel really unbearable too, especially, if you are neurodivergent and your brain is, like, sometimes scattered in general anyway.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, what's really nice about TikTok is, you know, what I said about image management, I feel like Instagram is image management intensified. You are showing something really pretty. Like, you are showing the transformation. Like, fuck Instagram. Like, that's how I feel about it. I missed the boat on Instagram a long time ago, and they have penalized me due to my niche. I'm always in the doghouse with them. So, I'm just kind of like fuck them.
What's really nice about TikTok is like, you know, like, my nickname growing up was Messy Jessie. So, like, I've tried to run away from that, but I am still messy. Like, I'm 40 now, like, embraced it. I'm a messy lady. And I like TikTok because you can do it dirty. You don't have to be, like, all polished. It isn't about image management so much. It's about like fun. It's about, like, what is, like, I like this person, they're weird.
You know, like, I made a video on how a company invited me to make lipstick and it was custom made for me. And then, when I went to name it, they wouldn't let me have the name that I wanted because I wanted to name it Cunti because that's part of my brand. And so, we just like kind of argued over the name. Like, so I literally posted a video putting my lipstick on, and then, like renaming it Cunti. I mean, you don't have to be out there making, like, these amazing videos like YouTube. Like, YouTube is really specialized. Like, you're really going for production value with YouTube. Tik Tok, like, you can make it in your car and because you got the best lighting ever in your car, and so, like, angles are perfect. You take a song, and like you talk, like, for 30 seconds.
So, I find that it really integrates well into my life. And I'm very reactive. So, like, I'll see a trend, and I'll be like, "Yes, yes, I'll do that quick." And I can do it quick versus, like, some of those other things. Like, there's nothing quick about them.
PATRICK CASALE: That's such a good point. I mean, and I was thinking about that today because you know, I was making TikTok videos before you jumped on here. And I look like shit today. I have bad lighting in here at the moment because I'm tired. But I'm talking about something that a lot of people want to talk about and 30, 40-second videos, and then, you're done and then you move on to the next one, and you just give good content. And like you said, if you want to pull over in your car, and just make one in your car, or whenever inspiration strikes, like you don't have to get home and set up your computer, and like have everything really well organized. It's like no, let me just talk about something that people are probably going to find interesting and engage with and then move on to the next one. One question I asked several friends who are big on TikTok right now, like, how much time during the week are you spending making videos?
JESSICA CLINE: You know, if I'm reinvigorating my account, I like to do three videos a day, and for at least a week, and if my account has stabilized I try to have one video a day out there. Sometimes I repurpose content. So, honestly, it just depends. Sometimes I've got a harebrained idea where I'm like, "I'm going to make something, and I'm going to do dance, and I'm going to do an outfit change." Three hours later, I'm laying on the floor, and my outfit change never worked, and dropped my phone, and I cracked it.
So, usually, like simple is better for me on that platform. Sometimes I find something that I really put my heart and soul into, and all of a sudden it doesn't even get any views. So, essentially, you can do as much or as little as you want.
PATRICK CASALE: That's good advice. I think some people feel like, if I'm going to do something like this then I'm going to have to dedicate all this time and build it into my schedule. And I think, yeah, maybe, depending on what you want the outcome to be, and the following to be, but ultimately, it can just be like, yeah, I'm going to make a video a day, or like you said, batching things, that's how I have to do it. Unless inspiration really strikes me then I go down, like, that hyper fixation fucking rabbit hole where I get time blindness, and all of a sudden, it's like, four hours later. But I do think that's important.
And showing up authentically, like you said. Like, if you don't want to dance on camera, don't fucking dance on camera. Like, if you want to be really serious, and just talk about topics that are important to you, do whatever you want to do. But ultimately, if you do start to develop a following, put some pieces in place prior to developing that following so that you don't feel so overwhelmed, that you don't feel like every Thursday from 9:00 to 12:00 I have to make content. Like, it's just not really how life works for a lot of us. And I think just sometimes that messiness is really the beautiful part of the creation process too.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, you know, my friend who I forced to start an account around the same time, she's got half a million followers. And so, part of her content is answering some of the questions that are, you know, the comments. And I mean, you could have a day, you know, a week's worth of stuff within a half hour if you're just answering questions.
So, once you get a following, and you've got something where people do ask you questions, you've got content right there in place. All you have to do is be on camera and respond to it, like, talking head.
I have another person that I had start, and she does it in her bathrobe. So, she found, like, people loved it when she looked like she was, you know, getting out of the, not getting out of the shower, that sounds dirty. But, you know, she's got like her hair and a little turban. And so, she doesn't wear makeup or anything. So, it's really easy. So, like, that's what's nice. Like, it's dirty. It doesn't have to be planned out. You don't need outfits, and you don't need to do all these, you know, challenges where you're, you know, swapping outfits, and doing that. I mean, those are for, you know, creator influencers that are putting, that's their whole job, is really to create this content.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, and again, that's so important for people to hear because I think so many people think that you have to do all of those things. And, you know, even in my coaching, if people don't want to show up on LinkedIn, don't fucking use LinkedIn. If you don't want to be on Instagram, don't use Instagram. Like, do the things that feel creative and energizing for you. And that may change. Like, you may be really into TikTok right now, and then, a month or two later, you may be like, "This isn't really doing it for me." And that's okay. Like, you get to develop your brand the way you want to develop it.
But I do think at this point in time, there has never been a better time to grow your audience than a time where a platform like TikTok exists because you just have so many eyes on that app all the freaking time.
And, you know, one concern of mine of downloading a TikTok app, I went almost a year and a half without looking at one. And I was like, if I download this app I'm going to go down this rabbit hole, I'm going to watch them all the fucking time like my wife does. And like, I have never done that, actually. I watch people who are doing things similarly to what I am doing so I can get some ideas. But I have never really went down that rabbit hole of like, endless TikTok, after TikTok, after TikTok.
So, for those of you concerned about that, I mean, I am someone who gets really tunnel vision hyper-focused, and like it didn't happen, so I just want people to. And I do like the, like, natural ability to just show up as you are. And I've tried to make those videos where you like switch outfits and do things like that. And I'm like, "I can't do this." Like, this is just not my style. I feel corny. Like, I feel like this is so forced. So, paying attention to that, too, I think is also really important.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, and that's why, like, in the beginning, I think it's so important just to just put a ton of content out there because you'll find your style, you'll find, like, what an audience loves to hear about. And hopefully, there's an intersectionality of both what they love to hear about and what you love to provide. And then, it just like comes together so nicely, but this is a real opportunity because it is organic. I missed the boat on Instagram, like, Facebook, like, yeah, that's great and all, but Facebook also puts me in the doghouse a lot of times just because of my website.
So, TikTok is a beautiful way to have a lot of growth, easy right now. So, I think that it's really good opportunity for people if they're feeling like they want to up their visibility and they want to start, you know, being out there, and you know, they see the vision of what they could do with their brand. It is a brand. Like, it's not just a practice, it's a brand for those that think like that. And so, I think it's a really good opportunity.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, that's definitely well said and at first you are going to be messing around to see if any of your videos take off and you know, the way you're structuring them take off. And then, once you find that, really follow that rhythm and that kind of build around that. And a lot of the first maybe even month or two is going to be like, yeah, this didn't do much, nobody really watched this, this didn't get good engagement, trying to think about, like, you probably have a list of 10 topics that you're really passionate about. And maybe it's one that you don't really feel like you wanted to have be the focal point.
For me, I tried to do, like, private practice coaching, which is so fucking boring. Like, I can make fun of therapists all day and how bad they are at running their businesses. That doesn't help me with my audience. And then, like, impostor syndrome extraordinaire because it's every day of my life. But in reality, like, what it came back to was like, addiction focus stuff, really being real about the experiences, and then, really real experiences about ADHD and autism.
And that's just where I'm going to throw myself into because those are the two things that have been major parts of my identity a majority of my life, and I also think, like, being able to talk about it without the shamefulness that comes up around it can really help people who are just out there in the world, like, looking for that hope or that optimism too.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, yeah, and I think, you know, a huge opportunity it's like myth busting, I think that there's a lot of myths, especially, about ADHD, spectrum stuff. And for me, sex stuff, there's so many myths out there that, like, if we find an area we'd like to talk about, we can be busting some of those myths. You know, the Madonna-whore complex, you know, just because I talked about sexuality doesn't mean, like, I'm a sex worker. You know, part of it is like, there's the rubber band where they think, if I talk about sex I must be easy. All these sorts of things.
You know, with ADHD, you know, they think, oh, you have ADHD, you must be like this. Oh, no, I'm actually, you know, like this. I'm not hyperactive, I actually am lost half of the time in my brain. Like, part of it is like, this is what this is really like and I think that, you know, you have that opportunity to be able to be out there sharing that.
PATRICK CASALE: I love that. I think myth-busting is one of the most powerful, like, forms you can take on, especially, as therapists who may be wanting to start talking on social media platforms is like, you know the information. Like, you have that knowledge, so putting it into play, and allowing yourself to be playful, or silly, or like, authentic, or real.
And, you know, some of my most engaging videos right now have been myth-busting about autism and social socializing. And like, talking about that in a way where people are like, "Oh, my God. Like, I've never considered that, or I do experience life the exact same way. And those are the things for me that feel really powerful and that may change in a couple of months where my ADHD takes over, and then, I'm like, "I wanted to talk about this instead."
So, like, give yourself freedom to change, give yourself freedom to create, and like Jessica said, like, if you feel like you want to batch things, batch things, if you feel like you want to be more spontaneous, be more spontaneous, don't put yourself in a box, but just give yourself permission to try, and also, show up and be authentic. And I think that really makes a huge difference in everything that we're talking about.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, and then, like, push yourself. Like go for big things. You know, when an MTV producer reached out to me, I was like, "What the fuck? What? Like, okay." But no one wants to be on TV, you know. Like, push yourself to be out there, pitching myself to big magazines.
You know, I have a post. Like, it really is, at 16 I moved out, and then, by 18 I was a dropout and homeless. And it's like, I went from, like, living in my car, and reading Cosmo, and now I'm in Cosmo. So, I think it's like huge that, like, I can pitch myself to, you know, book companies, magazines, MTV, Bravo. Like, you know, our show, you know, about working with celebrities is on the desk of Netflix, it's on the desk of Bravo, it's all these sorts of things.
And I couldn't imagine me three years ago trying that, I couldn't imagine me 20 years ago, like, fighting to just stay alive and safe and not even thinking about a PhD. But literally, I didn't even have my high school diploma. But, you know, now it's kind of like, I've just like really taken on, like, being a rebel, and putting myself out there, and if I get rejected, I get rejected, but better that I tried than not.
PATRICK CASALE: That's powerful and I appreciate you sharing that too. And I think that's a really good message, you know, just trying because at the end of the day what's the worst thing that happens? Like, maybe there is rejection, maybe there just is no response at all. But you just never know when that's going to work out?
Honestly, like, even for sponsors on this podcast, people have said, "How did you get sponsored so quickly?" Like, I don't know, I just asked. Like, I just put it out to these people who I've already had some relationship with and asked if they wanted to do it. And I think that if you prevent yourself from trying or asking, you're really missing out on a lot of opportunity and creating something for yourself that can feel really special. So, really, really wonderful advice.
Any last-minute tips for people who maybe want to get involved in this or any suggestions, in general, that feel really helpful?
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, I would say, you know, have a plan in place of how you're going to monetize so that it doesn't feel like it's another drain on your super important mental resources. And whatever that may be, whether you're going to create a workbook or something like that, or you've got spots open within your practice, and then, I think it really is like getting over that impostor syndrome. You know, video is intimacy, and everyone is looking for connection right now. So, it really is like getting used to doing that and letting yourself suck at something new, I think is important. Former gifted child, like, I don't like sucking at new things, but here I am sucking at new things. And through that, it can bloom into something really awesome and wonderful.
The final thing, like, your network is your net worth. So, it really is about connecting with others, connecting with other professionals, reaching out to people. And you know, whatever platform you're on, whatever way you're doing business, I think that's one of the most important things is really how I get paid is collaborating for these other companies and it's just relationship marketing.
PATRICK CASALE: Very well said, very, very well said, I hope everyone can take that in and take something away from that. And I appreciate you sharing that too. And, you know, that's a good point about collaboration. You wouldn't be here if I hadn't reached out to you. And we wouldn't be sitting here talking if we hadn't become the world of COVID Facebook friends over the last two years. So, like, it's one of those things that's just really important, just building relationships, and collaborating, and putting yourself out there, and being vulnerable.
So, I hope everyone can take that away. We're going to have a TikTok series on this podcast. That's our sixth TikTok episode. So, you know, the wave is here, you got to start riding it now. And I think it's important to kind of take advantage of the momentum.
So, I just want to say thanks for coming on and just let the audience know where they can find you, especially, on TikTok and anything else that you're offering.
JESSICA CLINE: Yeah, so again, Jessica, a sex therapist. You can find me on my socials. Usually, I'm Just About Sex, so Instagram, and Twitter, and all that sort of stuff. On TikTok, I am The Intimacy Expert because you don't want to have sex in your title. So, find me on TikTok, follow me if you want to see how I've been doing it, kind of get the lay of the land. I think it's a good representation of some of the possibilities on there.
And my website is just cline.com, C-L-I-N-E. You can check that out. I've got, you know, some fun courses and stuff coming out about, you know, magically orgasmic and stuff like that. I don't have any TikTok trainings, but I did present at a mastermind and I could make that available to everyone if they wanted to do that. So, I'll set up a quick email saying that you can just sign up to get view my presentation about how to use TikTok and some of those, sort of, foundational settings. So, I'll send that to Patrick and you can put that in the show notes.
PATRICK CASALE: Cool. Yeah, all of that information will be in the show notes for everyone listening. I just want to thank you again for making the time. I know we're both kind of exhausted for different reasons. And it's been fun following your journey. And I'm really excited to continue to see where that goes. And I hope the Netflix thing potentially takes off or any of those ideas. I think that's really cool.
And I just want to thank everyone for listening to the All Things Private Practice Podcast on all major platforms. You can like, download, subscribe and share. New episodes every Sunday morning, and just doubt yourself and do it anyway. And we'll see you next week. Thanks, Jess.
JESSICA CLINE: You're welcome.
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