Episode 99: How To Become A Published Author [featuring Nicole Arzt]
Becoming a published author feels pretty daunting. Where do you even start? How do you actually see it through?
During this episode, I talked with Nicole Arzt for the second time. She's the person behind the incredibly funny "Psychotherapy Memes."
I know for myself, I have 3 different book drafts, all sitting in Google Docs, waiting for me to circle back to them at some point.
Nicole talks about the process of becoming a published author, how to work through all of the insecurities and self-doubt, and the concept of "just getting going."
During this episode, we discuss:
- The vulnerability of the publishing process
- Do I even have anything to say that people would read?
- How the hell do I get published?
- How do I monetize my book?
- Tips and strategies on just getting started
More about Nicole:
Nicole Arzt is a practicing psychotherapist in Southern California. In her work, she has worked with a wide variety of individuals, couples, and families. Her clinical emphasis lies in treating substance use, eating disorders, and complex trauma.
An accomplished author, Nicole contributes to numerous mental health organizations. She owns Soul of Therapy LLC, a writing and SEO business for therapists. She is also the founder of Psychotherapy Memes, a global community of more than 125,000 followers. Psychotherapy Memes aims to provide a comedic outlet for coping with the many challenges associated with this field.
In addition, Nicole enjoys consulting and speaking with new therapists about working in mental health. She's been featured on several podcasts and has been the keynote speaker for several events around the country. She currently facilitates the Prelicensed Group on the Teletherapist Network.
Her debut book, Sometimes Therapy Is Awkward, is available wherever books are sold.
Nicole's website: www.psychotherapymemes.com
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PATRICK CASALE: Hey everyone, you're listening to another episode of the All Things Private Practice Podcast. I'm your host, Patrick Casale, joined today by my friend and colleague Nicole Arzt. She is an LMFT in California. A lot of you know her because she is the face, and person, human, and creator behind Psychotherapy Memes. Also the author of Sometimes Therapy is Awkward. And today we're going to talk about writing a book, the do's and don'ts, the impostor syndrome and vulnerability that comes up around that creation process, and whatever the hell else comes up while we're talking.
So, Nicole, it's good to have you back on and thanks for making the time. I know it's 7:45 AM where you are.
NICOLE ARZT: Thank you, Patrick. I'm happy to be here. And I'm looking forward to talking with you and seeing what comes up today, this morning, over here.
PATRICK CASALE: So, you came on about a year ago, it feels like, at this point in time, when we talked about impostor syndrome, and we talked about Psychotherapy Memes that you've created. And I mean, you have such an amazing following. And I think, again, it's because you're very real and that's what the therapy world needs in a lot of ways.
So, you're an author, you're a published author, you have a book that's been successful, and you're writing another book. And I think for a lot of therapists who are struggling with like one-on-one direct care being the only source of income, and wanting to do more, and wanting to expand their reach and become a published author, that feels intimidating to a lot of them.
And I think a lot of the reason is like, "I don't know where to start. And do I even have anything to say?" So, can you tell us a little bit about your journey? Because I'm sure there is a lot of overwhelm behind the scenes when you're trying to create something and put it out to the world.
NICOLE ARZT: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, you are correct about the process being, I wouldn't even say at times overwhelming, most of the time is overwhelming. Writing a book is one of those marathon-type things.
And the first one is probably… I don't know if it's the hardest one, but I would imagine it is, it's what I've heard from different author colleagues of mine because yeah, you kind of don't know what you're doing. Impostor syndrome, just like it is for being a therapist is very real with a lot of writing as well. And it's an investment of time, of resources, of money at times because you are sacrificing other ways of making money to make that money, sometimes you're pouring money into the product. It is complicated, and we can get into the weeds of it more of like, what I recommend doing or not doing.
But if it is something that's really speaking to you, and something that, like, keeps kind of coming up is something you want to pursue, it's something I'm always encouraging, like, just start writing, start writing ideas, get that like master Google Doc going. It doesn't need to be anything cohesive at first, you just need to start getting data. And I don't mean like research data, I mean, like, your own data of like what, excuse me, ideas feel important to you, and start getting them down and practice that skill of putting it down on paper, that's the first step really.
My background might be a little different than most people listening. As long as I've been doing therapy, I've also been doing writing. So, I do have a professional writing background, which I do believe helped with the process of writing a book. But that's not necessary and plenty of people, plenty of successful therapists write amazing books, influential books without having any previous writing background. It's not 100% necessary for success. But for me, I do think it helped, it kind of gave me, like, that background of what it means to sit down and have that discipline to write.
PATRICK CASALE: That makes a lot of sense. And I think what you're saying, too, is so important to note because I think when you're, like, saying, just get it down on a Google Doc or on paper, and get the ideas out, a lot of that has to be caught up in like the perfectionistic process of I don't really know where to start, or it has to… I think a lot of people that I've talked to would say I need to have it in like exact order of context of how I want this book to be laid out. And I think most people would say, don't do that, like, just get the ideas out of your head, like you're saying.
NICOLE ARZT: You know what? People do tend to be split. Actually, now that we're talking about that there are people who really benefit from having a structured outline, and they focus on that first. And that's true for a lot of art. You know, people who produce movies, for example, I've heard of that, or who paint, even they kind of have an idea of what they're going for. And there's almost like a visual outline in their heads. And so, similar for writing as well, and some people will spend weeks, months crafting this really detailed outline, and then that gives them a really solid blueprint as to what follow.
I wish that was my way of doing things because I feel like that's a little simpler. We all like that kind of concrete blueprint if you will. It just doesn't work as well, for me. I have to throw ideas, and experiment, and kind of like, feel it and touch it. And that was how my first book was, that's seeming to be the shape for my second book that I'm working on, it's already taken a couple of different shapes. And I think I know what the beginning, middle, and end are now, but I still don't know for sure because I'm still teasing out quite a few ideas and I probably won't know until after one full draft is done. And I've kind of learned to trust that that's just part of the process.
But yeah, kind of going full circle, dumping helps. Kind of like when you go to therapy, you don't necessarily know what you need to talk about when you start dumping and you start getting things out, you start picking up on themes, and you start, you know, creating threads that you want to pull on.
PATRICK CASALE: That makes a lot of sense. And I think that's really important to highlight that there are different processes here and some work better for others. And I think I would be more in alignment with what you're saying, like, I don't think I could create the structure and then create the content because my brain doesn't work that way. So, I would need to really start dumping ideas, and then starting to piece it together, and then starting to see, okay, this makes sense, let's get rid of this, let's revise this.
How important is that process? Like, the revision, editing process. I imagine that's another place of perfectionism, where, if you're talking about editing, and revision, and evolution, and having one draft be completely different than the final draft, you have to allow yourself to have it be messy at times.
NICOLE ARZT: I would say editing is like the true test of, like, moral character as an author because… so there's your own self-editing, which is painful because you look and read everything you're like it all is shit, that's just like the first thing that comes to mind. And then you're like, "I wasted all this time, it all sucks."
So, once you kind of get through that because every author, even very well-known famous authors you've written dozens of books still have that, you kind of set those feelings aside, and really hone in, refine, and then you got to go through the second way, which is like professional editing, beta readers, publish, all that stuff. And then that, you know, is another layer of like, "Oh, God, they still think it sucks." You know?
But at some point, you just develop skin, you just develop a skin, and you're like, "I'm so close to the finish line. I'm going to put this out there." And then there's that level of acceptance, "I'm going to put this out there, there's going to be mistakes, there's going to be things I read later on that I wish I had not said or I wish I had developed more."
But I think that's true for any art, you know? You listen to musicians, they talk about, like, their first albums being like, cringy, you know? And I think that's true for authors, I think that's true for TV producers. And I mean, you don't have to accept that this is the moment of time you're in, and years later you will look back, and things will come across as outdated, or even unhelpful, or cringy, is a good word, but you have to have some level of acceptance that this is good enough.
And again, a lot of parallels with therapy because my main profession therapy, is you can't get caught up in the perfectionism of that either. There is that self-compassion piece that really matters there of just being in acceptance this is good enough, and I'm proud of it, and I'm going to put it out there and take that risk.
PATRICK CASALE: That's so important to highlight because I think even if you're saying, like, the first album, the first book, the first iteration is cringy, right? That is probably the most important piece of this journey because it is about getting through the vulnerability, the insecurity, all the self-doubt, all the perfectionism, all the, "This is shit mentality." Which is totally normal in all creative processes, I think.
And then the realization of like, "But I still put it out there anyway." Right? Like, "I still did it." And that probably allows for those pathways to strengthen so that the next time, the next version, the next chapter, the next book, the next whatever, is you already have that foundation to know, like, I can get through this process and I can create something.
NICOLE ARZT: Absolutely, absolutely. And the nature of my book, Sometimes Therapy is Awkward, is about working through impostor syndrome and working through just feeling anxious, or insecure, or inadequate. And so, there's like a parallel process with me having written that book of, like, the meta of going through that myself. And so, in that way, like, I'm very proud of that because I'm kind of in the trenches talking about the trenches. And there's like a shared experience with that.
And again, I look at so many new therapists, I was in that camp too where it's like, you can get so flooded with feeling, like, you're not good enough or not helpful enough, that you almost don't know how to move. And in those things, like I always say, like, inaction is the worst thing. Like, you have to take some steps, even if you don't know where they're going to lead you out, you have to move because it's so paralyzing to just be stuck.
PATRICK CASALE: It's paralyzing, and it's debilitating, and it's painful because it makes you second guess every decision that you make, it makes you be much more risk-averse, which does not serve you well as an entrepreneur. And it makes you question your competency and your sense of self. And that can create this like, shame spiral effect, where you have a bad clinical interaction, it's just not the right fit, you said the wrong thing, you're a human, like and ultimately, what happens is, you're in your own therapy session talking about how you're the worst therapist on the world.
And I've been there like when I started out, I definitely had a lot of self-doubt, insecurity, and impostor syndrome about my ability as a helper, and then really anchoring into like rapport is everything, and building trust, and safety that is so crucial before any skill set.
And then that follows you in different entrepreneurial journeys and talk about impostor syndrome on this podcast all the time because we want to normalize it for people to acknowledge like, it's okay to be nervous, it's okay to be scared, it's okay to be fearful, it's okay to make mistakes and fail. But what's not okay is to never try because those emotions get too heavy, like you mentioned, flooding comes in, you get stuck, you get paralyzed, you decide that your idea is better suited for somebody else. And the reality is, somebody else will do it because most ideas are not that unique.
NICOLE ARZT: Yes, I agree, wholeheartedly. And it's not malicious, you know, to tell people that at times it can feel a little like, "Oh, that's a really tough love approach." And it is, in a way, you know? And it's something that I constantly am reminding myself that you got to feel those emotions and you still act, you still got to do it, you still got to make those moves.
You have to choose that timing for yourself, and that varies from person to person, and that's okay but you got to do something at some point. If it's [INDISCERNIBLE 00:13:06] at you, if there's that sense like you can do more, or you want to do more, like, you kind of have to go down that path and just see where it ends up, you know?
And it might still suck, then that's what people don't talk about, right? Like, that doesn't mean it all works out and it's all perfect. But I'm a big believer you still need that data, that data will give you another direction of the next thing to do, and there's beauty really in that, too.
PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. I agree, wholeheartedly. And I think about, like you mentioned, a lot of famous authors, successful authors have these quotes, right? Are examples of their own insecurity and impostor syndrome around the creation process.
And one that stands out to me is a Maya Angelou quote that says, like, "I've written 11 books and I still think that somebody is going to find me out to be a fraud, or like, I am not good enough, or that I don't know what I'm talking about."
And I imagine if you've written 11 books, and you have this, like, worldwide acclaim and accolade, and to still feel that level of vulnerability, and self-doubt, and insecurity because so much of the creative process is wrapped up and intertwined with a sense of self because it is a part of you when you're creating and when we're putting it out to the world it just allows for there to be feedback and criticism, and is someone going to buy it, are people going to leave bad reviews? Are they going to like it? Like, all of that stuff is real. And you can say like, turn it all off, like shut off the noise, but that's almost impossible, I think to do completely.
NICOLE ARZT: Yes, and unrealistic. You know, like that whole, "Oh, it doesn't matter what anybody thinks, it's your art." Okay, I think that's nice. But we're all, unfortunately, in a capitalistic world, you know? Where when a lot of times we're putting art out there, we do want to share it, we want to sell it, we know that if people don't like it, it could slander, and like ruin our reputation. So, like, there are those things to consider within reason, right? Within reason and that's the important thing too, of not getting tethered, necessarily to what people think.
But, of course, you're thinking about what people think. You want to put something out there that people resonate with, that they like, that they grow from. We rarely are writing something for us to read ourselves, right? It's meant to be shared.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I mean, I have a book that I've been writing for years about gambling addiction experience and it's sitting in a Google Drive folder with like 100 pages and I haven't touched it in almost two years, because I got this big burst. And I was like, "Yeah, I'm going to create." And now I'm like, "I don't want to go back through."
But I wouldn't read it. And I, also, like, even with podcasting, I don't listen to these episodes. Like, I've never and I never will because it has to be for me, like, it has to just get created and put out there because if it doesn't, that's where my perfectionism will come in and that's where I will start over-analyzing, and editing, and tweaking, and then it's no longer authentic to me, and then it loses all of its value for myself, like I can't do that.
NICOLE ARZT: Yes, I rarely read my own writing after I've written it. I know most writers and authors do not. And I've talked to a couple of podcasters, and that's the same thing that if they have to listen to their own podcasts are not happy about it type thing. And they'll usually delegate or outsource the editing, and all that to someone else for that reason. And I get it, I get it.
We're also just our own worst critics beyond like online trolls who just criticize everything. For the most part, I think we're all so hard on ourselves because we're all guilty of that upward comparison. I don't know if that's the correct term, but I think I'm like having a brain fart with it. But we'll look at the people who are at the very, very, very top and think, "Okay, we need to be up there level as a beginner, or even as an intermediate." And it just sets us up for more impostor syndrome and insecurity, and all that kind of good stuff. So, it's hard.
PATRICK CASALE: You're right. I mean, it is really hard. So, for everyone that's listening, the do's and don'ts that come to mind are like starting points, like for people who are like, I really do want to pursue this, I just kind of feel lost on what to do next, or how to move forward, what would you offer them for some just easy, tangible tips?
NICOLE ARZT: So, the first one and the most important one that I will reiterate is you got to just start writing. If it is important to you, you will make time for it. And I'm not saying that in a critical way. I'm saying that, like, you have to almost remind yourself that because you'll never find time, you will never find time to write a book. It's a huge task and we're all so freaking busy all the time.
I work really well with concrete, tangible goals. For me, it's always been like word goals, like 1000 words a day, a week, like, it depends on what I'm doing. Some people do hourly goals, I'm going to write for one hour, or 30 minutes, or even start with 10 minutes, okay, whatever. And that kind of goes with that cliche, just right. And you need to just write and you need to just keep writing. It is like exercise, right? You got to train that muscle. The more you do it, I will say the easier it gets, but the more habitual it gets, you know? Because, again, if you're just waiting to find that motivation, I promise you it will not come.
I've never seen a writer, I guess, there's a few where they do, you said you kind of got that burst of energy, but rarely does the burst of energy carry you from start to finish. Usually, it just moves from start to like, maybe middle, or mostly middle, usually. And that's true for most things in life, right? We all get that initial adrenaline, and it wears off, and then, we think we're the problem when really, like, you have to discipline yourself.
I'm trying to think what else I find really helpful. For me, I read a lot, a lot, a lot a lot. I find that A, is helpful for me as a clinician, of course, and since I write about therapy, and is always sparking ideas about what it means to do therapy, to be a therapist, the existential reality of what we do, but most authors will say they read double the amount they write, if not more. And so, reading is important, however you do it, audiobooks, Kindle. Like, there's sometimes weird gatekeeping about how things need to be read but I don't believe in any of that. Just listen to people who write really well or read people who write really well as much as you possibly can because that will inspire you, and you'll pick up language, and you'll pick up more words, and all that good stuff.
And let the draft sit, like, for a while, and you know, you don't need to get it done in, like, one shot. A lot of times with different writing assignments, I will write ideas, and then revisit it a week later because… I'm trying to think of the term, when you're too close to something you just can't see it, you need that pause, that break to kind of look at it with fresh eyes. Your eyes will never be as fresh as someone else's but you got to give yourself those pauses.
And then you get into the editing phase. And that's a whole other series of questions we could talk about. But for starting, the easiest answer and the hardest answer is you just got to start.
PATRICK CASALE: I think that's so true. I think, yeah, for most creative ventures you've just got to get started. Whether that means you're just starting your private practice, whether that means you're starting your book, or podcast, or coaching program, or whatever, you just have to start and…
NICOLE ARZT: And [INDISCERNIBLE 00:21:40] you'll make mistakes.
PATRICK CASALE: Exactly.
NICOLE ARZT: [INDISCERNIBLE 00:21:44] because if you try and plan for it, like, and get it done perfectly, you will be waiting years, you will be spending so much. I think of with you saying starting the private practice I know so many therapists who, like, want to get it all perfectly right, and then, they like, never actually open their doors.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, yeah, it's like I've got to know the ins and outs of every EHR system available, I have to know exactly what my notes need to look like, exactly what my paper… and it's like, just use imperfect action or impulse-momentum, and actually build the plane as you fly it because ultimately, that is going to be the catalyst to actually putting things into action. The more we procrastinate, and perfect, and become the expert in, the more likely it is that thing never gets launched into the world.
And you're sitting on these ideas that, I think about the movie, I don't know if you've ever seen it Bronx Tale, but Robert De Niro tells his son, like, I think the saddest thing in the world is wasted talent. And I believe that to be true because so many of us have so many great ideas, and concepts, and things that we can offer. And oftentimes, we are our own biggest critic and barrier to getting started.
NICOLE ARZT: You said it so succinctly, I can't talk, succinctly and perfectly there. Yeah, we're our own biggest barriers and it is scary to start, but it's scary not to start too. And the private practices are really fitting example because that's the nature of your listeners and I have my own practice, you have your practice, and you can't account for every variable, not even close, remotely close. And even if you do they change. So, it's not an excuse to be haphazard, you know? Like, you got to do your due diligence and that applies for every process in life, that helps you waste time and resources or it helps you eliminate wasting access, time, and resources. But yeah, at some point, you got to just do it.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, you just got to do the damn thing at the end of the day. And it doesn't mean it's less scary, it doesn't mean it's less anxiety provoking. But I keep thinking about impostor syndrome in a different lens now that I talk about it so often is that like, instead of letting it drive the car, instead of it letting you, you know, dictate where you move, debilitate you, paralyze you, it's just next to you. It's shrinking, it's smaller, it's a little bit muted, it's always there. But it no longer paralyzes your decision-making, it no longer debilitates you from taking that little step forward. Like, I actually use it as a more of a compass. If I'm experiencing it, I'm like, okay, I'm on the right track. So, if I'm experiencing it, then let's lean into it. And we all know how to do that. So, just really trying hard to work through that self-doubt and that harsh inner criticism that starts to show up when you're thinking about releasing anything into the world.
NICOLE ARZT: You know what? It's really interesting, I was just talking about it with someone in, my metaphor is similar to yours but different. You talk about it being a passenger in the car and because I have young kids, my metaphor's always been like it's like a child in the backseat of the car, in their car seats. Sometimes they're sleeping and you can just do… you're like focused, and you know they're there because it's a sleeping baby, you don't forget you have your own baby but they're quiet. And so, you really have that brainpower to focus on your creative projects, and you're feeling good, and sometimes they're screaming, and sometimes they're talking, and like, you have to make… And at some point, you have to realize there's just a level of acceptance the kid's there, and you got to work with what you have, but you're still driving.
But it's your car, you have to have control over your car, regardless, of what's happening. And in the worst case scenario, it means you're pulling over and you're saying, "Okay, I'm going to take care of you right now because I can't drive I really can't focus, so let me let me take care of your needs, and see what's going on." And then we'll get back on the road. But you get back on the road, you're always back on the road at some point.
PATRICK CASALE: I love that. Yeah, that's a great image and that's great for people who have kids, or who can relate, or just anything, in general. Like, I think this is such a big part of this conversation. And I appreciate you having it. Real quick question, are you a New Girl fan, the show?
NICOLE ARZT: I am not so, truest confession is I watch very, very little TV because I probably read so much but I have family members who are just obsessed. So, I've heard about a lot of inadvertently.
PATRICK CASALE: There's a scene that's coming to mind right now where one of the main characters, Nick, is an author, and he's getting through his writer's block. And he's sitting at the bar that he owns and his friend comes in, he's like, "What are you doing? I thought you were writing pages." And he's like, "I paid some random person on Craigslist $100 to punch me in the face if I don't have 20 pages done by three o'clock today." And he's like, "I would have punched you in the face for free."
But that's coming to mind when we're thinking about, like, getting started, like, just really trying hard to step into that space where you are no longer your biggest barrier and surround yourself with people who are doing cool creative things because I think it's helpful to have people who will build you up, and who you can bounce ideas off of, and talk about the fears, and insecurities, and struggle areas because this stuff is happening for everyone and it doesn't always get talked about openly because it's not the sexy side of owning a business. But I think in reality, we really have to talk about the struggle areas to help normalize the fact that most of us are going through something similarly.
NICOLE ARZT: I love that you talked about surrounding yourself with people because it's just so crucial. And it's talked about, but I don't believe it's talked about enough. I think about it as a therapist, right, having our own community of like-minded individuals, and that being essential for our well-being. But yeah, definitely for writing.
And it doesn't absolutely mean surrounding yourself with other writers, but other creative individuals who are motivated, and who are doing the damn thing, like you said, that helps because it lights a fire under you too. And it also creates camaraderie. You can go to one another and share, "Hey, I'm struggling, hey, I'm feeling apathetic about this, and whatnot." And we all need that community in the things that we're doing, it makes such a tremendous difference.
PATRICK CASALE: I agree, 100%. I really want to just say thank you for coming on again, and making the time, and sharing all of this because I think this is helpful. We haven't talked about this topic on this podcast yet. So, hopefully, people get a lot out of this. And, you know, are looking for your second book that's coming out. Is that public knowledge? Like, what it's about, any of that stuff? Or do you want to keep that to yourself, for now?
NICOLE ARZT: It's not necessarily public knowledge, but not for any good reason, per se. Because largely, I'm still teasing it out myself. But it will be another book for therapists, I'll give that much. It will be a book about the practice of doing therapy. And, you know, stay tuned for what happens with all of that, but it is starting to take some really good shape. I'm unexcited. I mean, it's all shit, right? But I'm still excited about it. And at some point, it won't feel like shit, hopefully.
And I do think our field is, we all joke about having tons of books we don't read, and not having enough time to read through it. But I do think we're still starving for books that inspire, and books that validate. So, those two big things as clinicians because there's a lot of books that teach us how to do something. And those are important. Of course, we want to know what to do with our clients. But we're struggling hard, therapists with burnout, with cynicism, with feeling misunderstood, all those types of things. So, I'm hoping my goal is that this next book will kind of hit on those key areas. And again, ideally, we're validating that story and inspiring therapists to keep doing what really matters, which is helping people in whatever demographic and workplace setting you are helping people in.
PATRICK CASALE: I love that. That sounds amazing to me. And I think you're right, the therapist community at large really does need that. I have a stack of those books on my dresser that I have not picked up in a year, the how-to's, and like the theoretical stuff, and all the other shit that we do need. But it's not as engaging or exciting as the stuff that makes us feel like a part of, or normalize the experience, or allows us to have relatability, or inspires us to do more, or be creative. So, I really commend you for what you're doing in the therapeutic space with your social media accounts, what you're putting out to the world, the content in the book that you already have. I mean, you're helping thousands of people, which creates a ripple effect.
And I don't know if we always think about that, when we have audiences about like, there's so many people that are just lurking or anonymous, who are paying attention to what you're putting out there and it's impacting them. So, really just want to say congrats to everything that you've done over the last couple of years and it's been a pleasure getting to know you like this.
NICOLE ARZT: Thank you, Patrick. I really appreciate that. And I'm a big believer in that ripple effect myself. And I say that to anyone who is listening, like a lot of times when we doubt our work, when we feel like what we're doing doesn't matter, or we get hung up on, you know, that one client interaction that maybe didn't go so well, we can't negate the shifts that we make in the world and how those compound to other people, and then other people, and like, it creates these really awesome pro-social effects. And yes, even can benefit when you're just lurking. I'm a big lurker in a lot of spaces myself. But you gain something and yes, so yes to all of that. But thank you for those kind words.
PATRICK CASALE: You're welcome. And just tell the audience where they can find more of what you're putting out there, and where they can buy your current book, and everything else that you've got going on.
NICOLE ARZT: Absolutely. The current books, anywhere books are sold. I'm best known on Psychotherapy Memes on Instagram. We also have Facebook, Twitter. Those are where you can find the relatability as a therapist, and I can also be reached at nicolearzt.com and there's contacts and emails there as well.
PATRICK CASALE: Thank you and all that information will be in the show notes including links to Nicole's book, Sometimes Therapy is Awkward, really awesome piece of writing and really, really relatable for those of you, especially, who are newer into the practice field. I think it's something that you probably need to own and actually read, not the one that just sits on your dresser.
To everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice Podcast, new episodes are out every single week on all major podcast platforms and YouTube. Like, Download, Subscribe, and Share. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. We'll see you next week.
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