Show Notes:

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Jamie Roberts, therapist, author, and founder of NeuroPebble Corp, talk about the realities of neurodivergent entrepreneurship and building an affirming community for mental health clinicians and creators, referencing Jamie's company, NeuroPebble, how to handle balancing multiple projects, and the journey of writing her second book.

Here are 3 key takeaways:

1. Accessibility and Neurodivergence Matter: Creating spaces like NeuroPebble isn’t just about cataloging trainings—it’s about reducing executive function burdens for both presenters and learners, meeting people where they are, and making high-quality resources accessible in neuroaffirming ways.
2. Pacing and Boundaries Are Essential: Whether it’s scaling back on group practice duties to focus on writing, or confronting the grief of acknowledging our limitations and capacity, it’s crucial for neurodivergent entrepreneurs to honor their natural rhythms and set sustainable boundaries.
3. There’s Room for Every Story: The entrepreneurial path can feel isolating, but there’s immense value in sharing your story, workshop, or course—even if someone else is doing something similar. Your perspective matters, and there’s always space for more voices in this community.

If you’re a neurodivergent clinician, entrepreneur, or creative, this conversation encourages you to find your pace, seek out community, and keep telling your story.

More about Jamie:

Jamie Roberts is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Jamie is AuDHD (Autistic & ADHD) and Dyslexic, and actively shares her experiences with her later-in-life diagnosis as the Neurodivergent Therapist across social media and is an active speaker on Neurodivergent and Teen topics. She is the Founder of NeuroPebble Corp, a continuing education platform for neuroaffirming clinical trainings from instructors with lived experience, as well as the founder of Equilibrium Counseling Services, a teen and young adult group practice in Southern California. She is the author of Mindfulness for Teen Anxiety, and her second book will be out March 2026 titled Neurodiversity for Teen Girls.

• Instagram: instagram.com/neurodivergenttherapist
• TikTok: tiktok.com/@neurodivergenttherapist
• NeuroPebble Instagram: instagram.com/neuropebble
• Link to the course that Patrick and Jamie are promoting: neuropebble.learnworlds.com/course/audhd-entrepreneur

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Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to All Things Private Practice. I'm joined today again by a repeat guest, colleague, and friend, Jamie Roberts, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist. Jamie has ADHD, dyslexic, and actively shares her experiences with her later-in-life diagnosis as a neurodivergent therapist across social media. And is an active speaker on neurodivergent and teen topics.

She is the founder of NeuroPebble Corp, a continuing ed platform for neuroaffirming clinical trainings from instructors with lived experiences, as well as the founder of Equilibrium Counseling Services, a teen and young adult group practice in Southern California.

She is the author of Mindfulness for Teen Anxiety. And her second book, which is super exciting, will be out March of 2026, titled Neurodiversity for Teen Girls. Congratulations on all of that. And you were just kind of saying that you're in, like, the final edit stage. So overwhelming, exciting, all of the above.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Yes, absolutely excited to be here and talk about all of the things, because I like to do all of the things. But yeah, the book at is very exciting. NeuroPebble growing is very exciting. So, there's cool stuff happening. And it takes a lot of energy at the same time.

PATRICK CASALE: Yes, I feel that deep in my soul as I think I have like 3% battery left and have been in burnout for a long, long time. And also, want to continue doing things. What a fun existence. It's a tug of war, push/pull, for sure.

JAMIE ROBERTS: It is absolutely a tug of war and a balancing act.

PATRICK CASALE: It is. So, with that being said, last time you were on here, I want to say that you were talking about like self-doubt, perfectionism, impostor syndrome-esque stuff. And I've seen the evolution of this podcast turn from that into more of a neurodivergent affirming podcast for neurodivergent entrepreneurs.

So, we know you own a group practice. I don't think we need to talk about that today. It is one of your things that you are juggling, though, as the owner of that practice. But writing the book, creating NeuroPebble, take us on that journey, because that's the piece that I think is really, really fascinating and really, really cool.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Yeah, absolutely. It's been a big like, evolution of like creating the group practice, then creating these experiences about how to kind of run, and supervise, and teach, transforming into, like, doing presentations, teaching courses. And NeuroPebble kind of started just fall into place. And then, took on a life of its own.

So, it really started of like me having courses, wanting to share those courses into being in spaces where I'm hearing my friends present, and then these presentations just don't go anywhere. Like, they do a presentation, it ends, and then two weeks later, somebody's like, "Oh, I'm looking for this specific course." And they're like, "I'll let you know when I do it again."

But what if we had a place that it could exist, where we can find it when we need it? So, it kind of just evolved into creating this, like, course catalog, or creating this neuroaffirming hub where all of these super niche, very interesting, neuroaffirming topics could live by a wide variety of presenters and of clinicians, so it was available to everyone as soon as it was needed. And creating that accessibility for clinicians who are looking for the trainings, but also for clinicians who have done the work, who have a little bit of this, like, additional stream of income, where they can put their work somewhere that it's held, and not have to do the executive function side anymore. We've taken that on.

PATRICK CASALE: That is a good tagline, for sure. Yeah, I love that. And, you know, it's interesting to me, because, like, I can't tell you how many times over the last year I've done a training on, like, neurodivergent affirming private practice setup and culture, and all the things. And I'm like, "Why am I not recording this?" Because I am doing this live with very little energy and very little capacity, like 15 times a year. So, it is one of those things where I don't think about it until I do it, and then I'm like, "Maybe next time?"

JAMIE ROBERTS: Yes, exactly. It's become one of the things where now, like, everything I do, I record it. And some of them, I just pop on the website for free. Some of them are at low entry point. Some of them put a lot of work into creating. Like, my assessment course was a lot of work, time, and energy to put together. So, there's all these different entry points based on where somebody is in their clinical journey, or in developing their neuroaffirming practice, there's ways to gain that information as you continue to develop.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, that's very well said. And I think that's an important, like, touch point for people to have that ease of access when they're looking for something, and to remember in their mind, like, "Oh, I can come back to this catalog." Because it has such great content, and that way I can revisit it when I have the energy or when I have capacity.

So, speaking of energy and capacity, how is this feeling for you to be like, simultaneously writing a book, simultaneously doing speaking engagements, trainings, and creating a membership? And whatever else is [CROSSTALK 00:06:06].

JAMIE ROBERTS: And all the things.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

JAMIE ROBERTS: It's like a mix of, like, my ADHD side is, like, really excited about a new thing. And like, yes, I get to create something new. Yes, I'm getting to, like, connect with more people, like all the instructors who are wanting to work with NeuroPebble, getting to connect with really brilliant, amazing people. And there's a lot of kind of mechanics behind the scenes, and like, creating my own schedule and structure that's been pretty hard of like not having a set schedule, like being, like in clinical practice, in my therapy office, like, right? My schedule is really set session by session, it's set.

But moving into the writing space and into the course creation space, there isn't a deadline, there isn't a structure. It's my made up structure. And that has been really hard for finding that balance of being able to rest, being able to play, but also being able to create these, like, really cool projects.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I can totally relate to that. And I think, you know, my autistic side is probably more dominant in terms of, like, ensuring that the structure and organization is adhered to by myself. But that can come with a lot of rigidity. And then, the ADHD side is like, "Hey, let's do all of these things today." And then, I'm like, "But wait, today is supposed to be a rest day."

And then, I struggle with that balance all of the time. And trying to find that balance has been probably one of the hardest things I've ever embarked upon in my entire life.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Absolutely agree with that. And so, I think, for how my brain works, talking is very easy for me, presenting is very easy. Writing was very difficult and very challenging for me, because it was quiet, it was solo activity. I'm dyslexic as well, so like, writing is hard.

And I feel like I'm now done out of the writing stage with that last six months of putting the book together. I feel like I went into a cave. And I just like had to only do this one thing, but there were all these other things happening on the outside, and finding that prioritization of significance to get things to continue to move and progress was a balance.

PATRICK CASALE: Totally.

JAMIE ROBERTS: It wasn't balanced at all. It was actually quite difficult, but we've made it through.

PATRICK CASALE: Totally. And we can call that balance or completion. And I think I find myself in the opposite end of that, where I am really shutting off and shutting down a lot of creative ventures and projects that I've been working on or been a part of for the last couple of years that have taken a lot of energy from me, mostly like the retreat component. And going into 2026, focusing on, like, writing has to be my job. Like, my manuscript is due next May.

And there is that part of my brain, though, that keeps saying, like, "Yeah, but like, there's going to be so much other free space and free time. There's no way that you're just going to write for however many months and not commit to anything else." And I think that's a hard place to be.

JAMIE ROBERTS: I think about, you're not going to commit to anything for that period of time, or at least not the big things. We know you're still going to do all the little projects and, like, you're not going to stop doing those things, but some of those big-time taking things are set aside. There were a number of things that I stopped doing during my, like, significant writing period that I'm really excited now to be getting back into that creative space. But there had to be a time that I removed that.

And along that line, I made my group practice smaller. During that period, I had to reduce, like, how much I was doing in the group practice in order to make space for NeuroPebble to grow, in order to make space for the book. And that isn't seeing/hearing that parallel with, like, stopping with the retreats, or reducing those to me, it's reducing the group practice. Like, it is hard to do it all. And sometimes things do have to give and take.

PATRICK CASALE: Yep, I agree 100%. And I think that makes us sometimes, like, really confront and face our capacity and our limitations. I think there can be grief in that when you are face to face with, like, "Oh, yeah, I can't push myself the way I used to push myself, and I don't even want to."

But it is that reality, of like, it's a check for sure, of like, yeah, your capacity is only so much, and you cannot continue to spread yourself so thin, especially when you find yourselves in the fiery depths of hell of autistic burnout, because honestly, like climbing back out of those pits are pretty freaking challenging. And the answer is definitely not to add more to the plate. It's certainly to reduce.

But I do think there comes grief when you are, you know, confronting your limitations. And I think the difference for me here and now, comparatively to a few years ago, is like after unpacking a lot of internalized ableism, acknowledging like it's okay to grieve limitations, but what would not be healthy for me anymore is to try to push through them, because pushing through them is how I got here.

JAMIE ROBERTS: There's a line that I added in my book that I'm really proud of. It was in the sensory chapter on like, things we hear from people all the time, about, like, "Oh, well, you're just going to have to get used to it. You're going to have to get you to push through it."

And the line is that I did figure out how to get through it by not tolerating it. I'm no longer putting myself in spaces that are overstimulating in that way or are uncomfortable. Like, I'm just not going to do that anymore. I'm going to conserve that energy. And that's how I deal with it.

PATRICK CASALE: Yep, absolutely. And sometimes that can feel like the world gets smaller, but I think it also gets more comforting in certain ways, too. Like, I was in Maine last week, ironically, scouting for a 2026 summit location. And I'm like, go to dinner that I have planned for months, talked about it publicly. But go in there, it's really loud, it's really small, it's really crowded, it's really hot. And I was like, "No, I can't do this." And immediately, like, shut down, go back to my hotel room, turn like a special interest show on in the dark. Didn't eat dinner, just laid there until the next day.

And I was like, this is kind of my reality and my existence, is that hyper vigilant awareness of sensory limitations and sensory struggles, especially as someone who is very, very hyper sensitive to most sensory input.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Absolutely. And that's goes along with like one of my goals with NeuroPebble is that we all have our strengths in different areas, and so how can we create that space that allows people to get their voice out and their message out without putting that extra toll or tax on themselves, about marketing or about the executive function piece, or about having to do live trainings? Can I record it privately by myself and still have it be out there in the world?

And to be able to diversify how the instructors get access to be able to share their information, but also how people who are looking for the information, do they want a live training? Do they want it on-demand? Do they do it on their own timeframe? And bridging that gap that a lot of us need some of those different supports.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. And it definitely creates a lot more accessibility, too, when you have all of those different formats for learning, and people get to kind of, like, choose their own adventure for what works best, for their preference and their learning style, and their system. So, I really like what you're creating.

And it sounds like it's really starting to grow. And that's got to be a really exciting thing to witness, because I know how much energy, and emotion, and work has gone into the creation process.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely it is fun seeing it grow, because it felt connected to me, and I felt like I could see there was a hole in our system and how to fill it, but to see it actually taking off and people connecting with it, really, it's very validating to see the momentum that we're getting there, and the number of people who are finding benefit from it, and who are being seen is really exciting. We have live courses booked out like, seven months in advance. We have multiple on-demand courses coming out. You and I are doing a course in a couple months. So, there's a lot of, like, really fun collaborations, getting to, like, exist and come to it through this process.

PATRICK CASALE: I love that, yeah. And I think that's got to be a really rewarding experience to just kind of get to see the fact that there is a demand for this, there is an interest. And when you put on quality events, and you book quality trainers and speakers on good topics, and you do it with a lot of intentionality, the results start to speak for themselves. So, I mean, congrats on all of that.

And I think the book writing process, too, is another area where people really test themselves. I mean, I've never felt more vulnerable or exposed than writing a book.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Absolutely.

PATRICK CASALE: And this will be your second book.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Yes.

PATRICK CASALE: But this will be specifically focused on the topic of neurodiversity. And I think that probably feels, probably a little bit more vulnerable, if I have to imagine.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Absolutely, it does. Like, Neurodiversity for Teen Girls, like this is my special interest. This is the area where the bulk of my work is and so it does feel very vulnerable, especially with, like, how fast the language in our community is evolving, and putting something in print as things are evolving, it feels like, did I get this right if I'm writing it now and it's not even coming out a year after I've written it, how to kind of keep up with that flow. But also, like, it's also my story, right?

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Like, I was a neurodivergent teen girl that was undiagnosed, and how does that then play into the story that I'm telling for the girls that are going to be reading this in the future?

PATRICK CASALE: I'm really glad you said that. I think that's important to name, like, the language is ever evolving in any marginalized minority group, right? And for me, I think about that as I'm writing it now, right? Because mine will not be published until March of 2027, and I'm like, "What in the world is going to change in the matter of a month, let alone a year and a half? How am I going to get this all right? How am I going to encompass everything?"

And the reality is, you really can't. And I'm going to take a page out of Dr. Donna Henderson's book of Is This Autism. And I really thought their forward was really well done, where it was like, we acknowledge that language in the community is changing all the time, and by the time this gets printed, language will be very, very different. And I just really appreciated that perspective, because I was like, that allows me to feel a little bit more comfortable with trying to say something similar to just name that, because I don't think we want to do harm. And I also think that there is a reality where you put something out there and you are immediately exposed for criticism.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Yeah, yeah. I included something like that in mine as well, of just like, this is the language we're using right now, acknowledging that it is evolving and it is changing, and you get to decide what language works for you. I also give myself some comfort that, like, second editions exist.

PATRICK CASALE: That's true.

JAMIE ROBERTS: And like, we can put out independent chapters that correct something as new information comes out that, like, the book, yes, this version is in print, but books also evolve and change and are reprinted or have add-on addendums and chapters that go along with things as the information we get changes.

PATRICK CASALE: For sure. Yeah, I think it's in an interesting time period, you know, when we have access to so much information so quickly, and it's like at the touch of a button becomes a bit overwhelming and like flooding-esque.

But again, I just want to congratulate you. I know it's been a hard, hard road, especially just getting through that process.

So, for those of you listening, like if you want to publish a book, if you want to self-publish a book, if you want to pursue the standard like, publishing option or route, or the hybrid route, there are so many options for you, and you all have stories to tell. I think anyone that got into this field, you got into this field for a reason. And a lot of it is most likely because of your own journey and your own experiences. And, you know, people need to hear this stuff, so I really commend you on that. Very, very proud of you.

You're going to be at my New Zealand retreat when your book publishes.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Yes, yeah. The book comes out March 1, 2026. And we will be in New Zealand. And I was like, how perfect to like, be surrounded by other neurodivergent entrepreneurs when this comes out. I'm so excited for, like, how that lined up.

PATRICK CASALE: That really feels amazing to me. So, I am counting down the days for that.

So, let's pivot into what we are going to do together on your platform. So, yeah, share a little bit about that.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Yes. So, we are going to do an open forum conversation course, exciting discussion with the community. So, on December 12th, it is going to be the ADHD Tug of War of the Entrepreneur. So, for the first hour, we'll be talking about all the different projects we have, a little bit like an expansion of today's conversation of book writing, group practice owning, courses, podcasts, and what all of that looks like, of the energy that goes into it, the burnout aspect.

And in the second hour, we're going to open it up for conversation for the live audience. So, people are going to be able to submit questions in advance, they're going to be able to un-mic and ask questions live in the conversation, which I think is going to be really fun, because a lot of us listen to both of your podcasts, and we hear the stories. But to be able to have a space where it can be an open dialog and chat with us, between the two of us and all the different projects we have going on, I think it's going to be a really rich, really fun conversation for people who are well into their entrepreneur journey, but also, people curious about starting out and what that looks like.

So, to summarize what I said, the ADHD Tug of War of the Entrepreneur, December 12th. It's going to be pay what you can. So, just come hang out with us. We'll be having the open conversation. It'll be recorded if you can't catch it. You can submit questions in advance, and we're excited to expand this conversation.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Yeah, I'm really excited, and I appreciate you having me on your platform to share some of this struggle and journey. And there's been a lot of good too, you know? Like, I think that gets lost a lot when we're talking about a lot of the struggle parts of this, but I also want to highlight there have been some absolutely incredible experiences for both of us along the way because of the way our brains work. And I think it's important to highlight both.

And I get a lot of DMS of like, "Everything you said related with my experience, but I have a question for you, how the hell do you keep doing it?" And I mean, at this stage, I just responded like, "I'm basically a husk of a human being. And I don't know anymore. I don't have those answers."

But I think that is sometimes my answer, of like, I don't know, and I don't need to be, and I shouldn't be, is that is sometimes the reality here. And I have had to work very hard to protect myself from myself. And that is still a work in progress.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Yes, yes. I gave my admin, Kiara, a lot of power, and I tell her, like, "I'm not allowed to do X, Y, and Z." So, if I tell you I want to do this, you have to tell me no. And she tries really hard to tell me no, but I often don't listen.

PATRICK CASALE: Yep, that's fair. I can relate. So, I have been in that position many, many times, and I think we'll deep dive that, and we'll kind of talk about ways that you can set up some structures, and some balance, and, you know, some mechanisms that could work for you. I don't like to say, like, hacks, because I don't think that works. And I don't think that the standard, like boundary setting, balancing, self-care stuff works for us anyway. But it is about getting creative and really, kind of figuring out how to support both neurotypes simultaneously, which can be quite challenging.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Which is a learning curve.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

JAMIE ROBERTS: I think something I want to add to this conversation that I think we both believe in of like that there's space here for all of us, that none of us are in competition with each other, that there is space for everyone to have a voice, whether it's another course or another book, that like, there's so much here to create and to have your story be heard, and it wants to be heard by everyone that I think part of that entrepreneur experience is creating space with and for everyone around you in the community. And that's a piece that I'm excited to share about that I think is often overshadowed by the burnout, exhausted feeling.

PATRICK CASALE: Oh, for sure. And I think that is like one of the most empowering pieces of all of it is to acknowledge that there's room for everyone to get creative and to tap into the things that you feel really, really passionate about regardless of whether or not someone is doing something similarly, because there are not that many, like, really unique ideas out there, and most of the time, people are putting their own takes, spins, personalities, life experiences, perspectives, too. And I think that's really important, because there is plenty of room for everyone to be successful, and creative, and to enjoy the entrepreneurial journey to the best of their ability.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Absolutely, absolutely agree with that.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. Well, as we end the end of this combo, anything you want to share about where people can find NeuroPebble, and you have your upcoming courses. We will definitely link our joint or what are we calling it? A course, a training, a workshop?

JAMIE ROBERTS: A forum, a discussion.

PATRICK CASALE: Forum, our discussion.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Our discussion, yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: We'll link that too. So, yeah, just wherever they can find whatever you've got going on.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Absolutely. So, I just want to throw in NeuroPebble, so the idea of penguin pebbling that we love to do, but with our ideas and with our thoughts. So, the neuro and we're pebbling it. And we have this fun little penguin that we've designed that'll be coming out, but you can find everything NeuroPebble at neuropebble.com.

We also post new courses on our Instagram, if you follow that. We've got a newsletter. We're going to be coming out with a membership in the next couple months. So, we're excited to get the fine tuning on that and be able to release that so that there are easier entry points. So, neuropubble.com.

And then, you can find me @neurodivergenttherapist on every social media platform. And we have a new live course every single month. We have at least one to two on-demand courses coming out every month. And then, everything that's there remains there. And you maintain access to it, so wherever you are, whatever you're thinking about, we've probably got it or we'll have it in the next couple months.

PATRICK CASALE: Pretty cool. I want to ask you about the name, and like, I knew where the name came from, but for the audience to know that, yeah, I think it's a really, really awesome name for a business, for sure, especially with what you're offering. And also, you have just become a CE provider too, so…

JAMIE ROBERTS: Yes.

PATRICK CASALE: …that plays a role as well.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Absolutely, yes. Just last week, we got our NBCC approval, so we've had APA sponsorship so far, but now we've got NBCC. So, that's really exciting, because it will increase, like, who will help with their licensure and what we can do in-house, and being able to support other independent programs and being a sponsor in that capacity as well is something we're looking forward to doing.

PATRICK CASALE: Love that, yeah, that's fantastic. So, that will be in the show notes for everyone to have access to. And you will also have the link to the forum that Jamie and I will be co-hosting in her platform. So, thanks so much for coming back on and making the time. And congratulations on everything that you're doing.

JAMIE ROBERTS: Thank you so much. This is always a fun conversation.

PATRICK CASALE: And to everyone listening to All Things Private Practice, new episodes are out on Saturdays on all major platforms and YouTube. Like, download, subscribe, share. And doubt yourself, do it anyway. We'll see you next week.