Episode 198: Navigating Neurodiversity and Culture: ADHD, Autism, and Indian Women [featuring Vinita Menon]

Show Notes

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Vinita Menon, a clinical psychologist and co-founder of The Thrive Collective, discuss her unique blend of insights around neurodivergence, cultural context, and the universality of our human experience.

Dr. Menon shares her journey from being the “only one of her kind” growing up in the U.S., to becoming a fierce advocate for those who don’t neatly fit into boxes—especially within Autistic, ADHD, and Indian women’s communities.

3 key takeaways:

1. Culture and Neurodiversity Intertwine: Support must be culturally sensitive. What works in one cultural context may not in another—and nuance is key when offering advice or care.
2. Connection over Jargon: At the heart of her approach is the drive for every individual to feel seen, supported, and connected. Fancy terms aside, we’re all searching for acceptance and belonging—regardless of our backgrounds.
3. Breaking Boxes, Building Bridges: Whether as an entrepreneur, a woman navigating career and family pressures, or someone with a neurodiverse brain, many of us share that underlying question: “Am I good enough?” It’s not about hustling more, but finding spaces, strategies, and communities where we’re truly understood.

If you’re interested in how intersectional identities shape our mental health journeys—or want to understand what more thoughtful, personalized care looks like—this episode has a lot to offer.

More about Vinita

Dr. Vinita Menon is a seasoned clinical psychologist, clinical supervisor, nationally certified school psychologist, and professional coach. She has co-founded The Thrive Collective, a hybrid psychology practice that provides compassionate, evidence-based therapy and evaluations for children and adults. She integrates family and school professionals into treatment, ensuring holistic and effective care for her clients. She offers 2 clinical intensives for ADHD and autism for adults. As an EAP provider for executives at a multinational firm and a coach, Dr. Menon specializes in culturally sensitive support for Indian women navigating unique challenges. She co-founded The Thrive Mind to expand the reach of those services. 

Social Media:

• @thrivecollectivepsychology
• @thethrivemind
• @drvinitamenon

Websites:

• mythrivecollective.com/adhd-intensive
• mythrivecollective.com/autism-unlocked
• thethrivemind.co/be-savvy

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Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the All Things Private Practice Podcast. I'm joined today by Dr. Vinita Menon. She is a seasoned clinical psychologist, supervisor, and nationally certified school psychologist and professional coach. She has co-founded the Thrive Collective, a hybrid psychology practice that provides compassionate, evidence-based therapy and evaluations for children and adults. She also supports the ADHD and autistic community and is an EAP provider for executives at a multinational firm.

Dr. Menon specializes in culturally sensitive support for Indian women navigating unique challenges. She co-founded The Thrive Mind to expand the reach of those services. So, I've canceled on you like four times because of life. And I'm really just appreciative that you've been flexible. I'm really happy to have you on here. And anything I missed with your bio?

VINITA MENON: No, I think that's a great place to start. I'd love to jump into that conversation before my voice gives out.

PATRICK CASALE: Hard relate. So, yeah, let's do it. So, you pitched me on, "Whatever Patrick thinks is best." Which people always do. And I'm like, "I don't fucking know." And then, you talked about, like, autistic culture interwoven with just different cultures in general, and how there are similarities, how there are differences, how we approach things differently here versus over the world. You just got back from a very long trip to India. So, like you tell me where you want to jump in and start, where your brain feels like this is it?

VINITA MENON: That sounds great. I feel like my life has been working on two parallel paths. There's a professional world. I started off, as most of us do, as a generalist, immediately thinking, "I want to work with little kids." Until I did. And then, "No, maybe not." You know? But-

PATRICK CASALE: I get that, totally get that. I was going to be a school counselor, and the reason was only because I wanted summers off. I do not like kids.

VINITA MENON: Well, tell me more directly how you feel about that.

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:03:14].

VINITA MENON: No, I'm also a school psychologist. So, I'm a clinical and a school psychologist. And I went into the clinical world because I love the puzzle of the brain, and you know, how do things go together, and what makes people tick, you know? That kind of thing.

And then, I loved the school psychology aspect, because bullying was trending early, ADHD was trending early in my career, and school teams did not have any idea at that point what to do. And so, I am a proactive, preventative type of person at my core. And so, the school psychology approach worked well with me.

Parallel to that is a young girl growing up in the US, the only one of her kind for the longest time. You know, I was the only non-white person until eighth grade. Yeah, so that was a long time of me trying to figure it out. You know, my home life was very different. My parents are highly educated. They came here, and established themselves, and really are a classic immigrant success story, made sure that I knew about my culture, but also were very open-minded about me trying things here. Like, I went to, you know, a high school trip to France and, you know, things like that. Like, they let me try things and figure it out.

PATRICK CASALE: Sure.

VINITA MENON: You know, they had a growth mindset before we knew what that was, you know? Or we knew what to call it. So, I'm forever thankful, you know, for that.

So, when you put those two aspects together, I have always felt like I was trying to crack the social code. And then, I turned it into a career. You know, that's basically what happened.

So, when I went to India on family visits, I was the American cousin. I didn't know all the traditions and customs. I didn't know until someone told me, you know, how to speak and don't speak until you're spoken to, or, you know, whatever it was, you know? Not hard and fast, but just generally speaking. I wouldn't go into the front door, but here I would, you know, at home in Chicago.

So, I've always been fascinated by that, and I think it's been a personal development. I was the kid, I was the baby who wasn't supposed to make it. I was born with a significant health issue, never before seen in my small town in India, and quite an anomaly. So, given that, you know, place where it started, my grandmother had to feed me with a little dropper because I couldn't suck as a baby. So, I couldn't take a bottle, for example. Because she had to feed me with a, you know, so my mom, a young parent, didn't know what to do. And my grandmother was like, "Watch me." You know?

And I think that's been the theme of my entire life. I think that has been, "Oh, you don't think you can do that. I don't think you can do that?" And I end up saying, "Watch me." You know? So, I want to help so many other people. I have this platform. I have this opportunity, brain, skill set, whatever, I want other people to have the same chances. And if I can help them track the code and release their potential, we call it different things now. We call it executive functioning skills, and we call it pragmatic language skills. I'm sure I can talk the talk about, you know, all the jargon and fancy terms, but we really want, what we really, really want at our core, for all of us, is to feel connected, right? To see that-

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, absolutely.

VINITA MENON: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: You know, I was saying this the other day, like, one, I'm glad you're not going to use the jargon. We don't want the jargon on this podcast. We want the relatable aspects of everything. So, this is good. But like, I was saying this the other day, I just got back from Ireland from a retreat. And then, you know, throughout all of my traveling, people are people, right? Like, we all want universal things for the most part, despite culture, and despite where we grew up, and how we grew up, I think we all want connection. We all want community. We all want to feel loved, and supported, and seen.

And I think we lose sight of that oftentimes. And even what's happening right now in this country, like we lose sight of that very quickly. And it's fucking sad to me, but ultimately, yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt you on that, I just felt like that.

So, you wanted to talk about, like travel and how culture plays a role. And I think it absolutely does. And traveling is such a good lesson in humanity too.

VINITA MENON: Oh, very well said. And I think, you know, as a family, my husband and my daughters and I, we have always emphasized family trips and travel over gifts for birthdays, like, you know, sweaters, and you know, things like that. So, we have enough sweaters, you know? So, we pull our money and do all kinds of trips, and pretty adventurous ones. And it has promoted such great conversations.

And how would it have been possible for me to feel homesick about a country that I've never been to? I went to Singapore, for example, and I was waiting in line to check out because, of course, I had to buy some souvenirs. And there were people. There was a woman in a tank top and shorts, a woman fully covered in a [PH 00:08:55] Bucha, a woman in a sari, a woman in jeans and a T-shirt. And me, I don't remember what I was wearing. But I was looking around, and no one batted an eyelash. It was just really no big deal. People were people.

And I love the true melting pot, and you know that experience where you can just be who you are. And I craved that as a young child, right? And then, fast forward later into my career, I see my clients who are craving that, to be understood, and to be on the clinical practice, and in the coaching business that-

PATRICK CASALE: Sure [CROSSTALK 00:09:33].

VINITA MENON: Like on the coaching side, someone will say, "I have all the technical skills. I put an awesome slide deck together." And then, I froze because they asked me a question on the spot, and I couldn't answer it. And the company's culture, or the client culture appreciates thinking on your feet more than a pre-rehearsed, you know, sort of presentation.

PATRICK CASALE: Sure, absolutely.

VINITA MENON: They lost the pitch because of that, or that's what she thinks, anyway, but just one of many, you know, examples of, you know, we each have different things that are easy.

And then, recently, I don't like to do reels, but I did them myself a couple of times. And one was, I love to plan ahead. I like schedules and I like to know what's happening on any given day. That helps [CROSSTALK 00:10:28]-

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:10:28] my love language.

VINITA MENON: Yeah, it actually helps me be more flexible, though, if to move something, we can, but I need to know where the spaces are, right?

PATRICK CASALE: For sure, totally.

VINITA MENON: It works out. So, when I was thinking about this trip to India, and I hadn't gone back in like seven years, and then opportunity came up to work at a school, and do some teacher training, and some professional development, I jumped at that. And then, thought I could also see a little bit of family and some fun too. But I spent several days at the school.

And the difference there was, you know, there's so many strengths. For example, here in the US, you know, you'd call me before you came over. You know, you'd say, "Hey, I'm going to be in town from the 18th to the 27th, what day works for you?" You know? If you went to a family member's house in India and you said, "Hey, I'm Vinita's friend." You know, they'd be like, "Come on in, have a meal. Do you want to stay over?" "Sure, no problem." And you don't have to call ahead, you just ring the doorbell, you know? And there's a charm to that. I can't do that, but I do admire it, you know?

On the other side, you know, those are the unique differences. But the other side, I noticed that when I was talking, I talked to people from little kids all the way, you know, 70 plus. I talked to a wide range of people on this trip. And really, the thing that keeps coming back, especially, for women, is they really are trying to have it all, but not necessarily all at the same time. They're trying to figure out different pauses. One person has twins, you know, adorable, three-and-a-half-year-old, very busy twins, and she never stopped her career. She's an associate partner for a large telecom company. She has a lot of family support, so she didn't stop her career. She kept going and managed. She's worried that, "Did I make the right choice? Did I sacrifice anything?"

I spoke to another person who is at a 10-year pause to raise her family, and is really nervous about going back to the workforce. Wants to, is very well trained, but is rusty, you know? And did I make the right choice? Is it too late for me? Can I go back? Will they ask questions at the interview about what were you doing for the last 10 years? And yes, they will ask, and you need to be ready with the answer. You know, talked about that informally. But these are the same questions that I'm getting in my coaching practice.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely.

VINITA MENON: From people who are either born and raised here, first gen, second gen. You know, now I don't only see Indian women, but that seemed to be a large portion of my caseload right now for the coaching side. And so, I developed a set of modules and a program that is scientifically based. It speaks to that universality of our common needs and how to practically problem solve, and that's exactly what I do with my clinical piece load as well.

So, it has been such a privilege, and it's been such an interesting parallel path, as I said before, that, you know, I don't want to be put in a box, and I don't think anyone else should either. That's just been my poor belief. I always win at two truths and a lie. I will win because, you know, if you try to put me in a box, I'm going to crawl right up. So, that's what I want to offer, you know, to others too, either through this conversation or through, you know, Instagram posts or conversations, you know?

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, no, I think it's important. I think a lot of people can relate to that, you know, feeling put in a box, and being resilient, and creative, and thinking outside of that box, and just trying to constantly prove whoever wrong, whether it be society, whether it be family, whether it be self, whether it be just circumstance. And I think that's what makes entrepreneurs entrepreneurs, in a lot of ways. And it's the humanity piece that gets missed oftentimes. Like, we can really drop into, like, hustle grind culture and be like, "Just got to work harder, and then things will get better." And it's like, well, that's not always true, and that's often not the case. There's a lot of context that we miss.

But I think existentially, what you're saying is, despite whether you're in India, despite whether you're here, despite whether you're talking to people throughout the world, people often have the same concerns, the same desires, and a lot of the same anxieties and stresses that are coming up for them.

And I think I keep hearing like, almost at a core, foundational level of like, "Am I good enough? Do I measure up? Like, am I going to be able to make an impact?" And I think those are big questions for people that I think we have constantly happening throughout our lifetime. So, I like that approach.

Now, let's pivot to, you mentioned really working with ADHDers and autistic people in general. And I think there's a lot of what we're talking about, feeling like I don't fit in. I don't belong. I don't feel like I understand the roles that are happening in life, in general. I feel like I'm in this box that doesn't work for me, and I need to get out of it in some way or another. So, tell me about why ADHD autism are passions of yours?

VINITA MENON: I didn't go looking for it as major things in my life have come. It came to me. So, when I was at a partial hospitalization program doing some training early on in my career, ADHD was only, and I put that in quotes, only present in a very young boy. [CROSSTALK 00:18:48]-

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah [CROSSTALK 00:18:49] for the most part, right?

VINITA MENON: Right. So, and like, well, that didn't sit well with me. But then here we are. What do I know? I'm a teeny. So, I watched that evolve, you know, and I looked left and right and went, "Well, what about the parents?" Because sometimes when you're having conversations, they're like, "You know, I think I was like this as a kid." But we didn't call it that I was just being a brat, or, you know, mislabeled as, like, the naughty kid or something. Then I looked at the siblings, and I thought, "Well, what about them." When all of this attention is going to the identified person in the family for care. And it was a medical model. So, you know, I will fall back into that sometimes in my early career, that it was hardcore, you know, medical model.

PATRICK CASALE: Yep.

VINITA MENON: But that too, didn't sit well. So, I piloted some sibling programs later in my career. You know, I did a lot of work in schools, a lot of in services, and the people who were being bullied and targeted had the same set of traits. They were different, you know, a different drummer, you know, that type, loner, keeps to himself or herself, mostly himself at that point.

And then, I had the opportunity to work in a developmental disorders clinic, and I did a deep dive all day, every day, five, six times a week of these dually diagnosed individuals across the lifespan. And it was a very deep and really enriching experience. 90% of my clients had both diagnoses, autism and ADHD. And the way that I was trained, it is their personality and their individuality first, and diagnosis second. But we had to crack the code. You know, we had to figure it out. So, how do we go from here to there?

And there are some things that I thought were so fundamental that I realized I needed to teach as part of a session. For example, I had many college students who were brilliant until they went to college, and cracked and burned because they had to create their own structure, and that was extremely difficult for them.

So, I would take out my planner, paper planner. We would practice blocks of time and how to estimate time, and all those good things. And one client stopped me and said, "You're not in college anymore." I said, "No, no, I'm done with college. Well past that." He was like, "Well, then why do you use a planner?" And I was like, "Ah, okay, this is interesting. Planners are for life, not just for school, you know?"

And so, that's when, you know, in a clinical sense, we would say, okay, we need to generalize the skill, right? But that's what he was asking me. He's like, "Well, I'm thinking of it very specifically for my college classes, and assignments, and due dates and things like that." And then, I mean, yes, that's where we will start, but we need to generalize the skill to your life in general, paying bills, and coming to those appointment on time and rescheduling, if you have to. How do you do that? You know? Making a reservation, making travel plans, whatever it might be.

PATRICK CASALE: Totally.

VINITA MENON: And it blew his mind that I used a planner. And that was very early. It was a privilege to work with him, and then I realized that there was a lot of women and girls who I'm like, "Wow, here's a whole nother area that nobody's talking about." And my oldest, my lean, oldest diagnosis for the first time of an autistic female, born female, was at age 23 and that was 15 years ago, and that was likely late then.

PATRICK CASALE: Really unusual back then, for sure.

VINITA MENON: Yeah, very late diagnosis for her. But she was like a classic presentation. I went through her report cards. She was always described as shy or difficulty with change. She was her sister's shadow. Her sister's friends were her friends and so on, and every single example. Had she been male, she would have been diagnosed a long time before. And I was like, I kept questioning myself at that point, and then I said, "You know what? You wouldn't question this if this person was male or younger, so stop it, you know?" But sometimes you doubt yourself, you know? And so, stop it right now.

And the parents and the family, they were still relieved because she was failing her clinical program when she got to the practical side for the, I think, it was a physical therapy program. And she did great academically, theoretically, all that coursework was done. And what did her team say about her? She's pedantic. She is aloof with the patients. Doesn't meet them at the patient's level, the physical therapy patient, and talks like a professor. I mean, all of it. It was amazing. And so, I asked one of her professors, like, "Well, what does she do before class? Like, when everyone else was sort of settling in, chit chat." Because she just sits there, she doesn't talk to anybody.

You know, like, again, if she was male, she would have been identified so much earlier. And it was a relief for them. And she actually changed careers to do something more individual versus team-based. And she's so happy.

And again, I was like, "This is what I need to do." It came to me. And I need to stand on whatever soapbox I have. And you know, women have to talk about women. We can't wait for anyone else to do that for us, you know? We shouldn't. And so, like, well, I have an opportunity to spread the word. I'm doing it. [INDISCERNIBLE 00:24:43] you know, like, watch her, you know? And it just kept going.

And now I see clients across the lifespan. When I started working with the multinational firm, they had me fill out this, you know, tell us about you kind of questionnaire, and I fully expected to get neurodiverse clients. Like, I have ADHD, and I've been trying to hide it, and I moved up to senior manager, and now I feel like I'm going to crash and burn, you know? And that did come. I did get those clients, but I was astonished at the number of Indian women who signed up. And I want someone who understands the culture, someone who gets me, someone where I can take a shortcut and not have to explain, like, why I have to care about what my mother in law said, or, you know, something like that, or without me saying, "What? you don't have to care about her. It doesn't matter." It does matter, you know? We want to be culturally sensitive, and if I give you advice in session or a recommendation that doesn't fit with you culturally, you're not going to use it, number one, you're not coming back, and you're going to feel worse than before you started.

PATRICK CASALE: For sure, you're making sense.

VINITA MENON: That's not my [INDISCERNIBLE 00:25:57] you know? So, on the one hand, there's a universality. On the other hand, there are some nuances and unique needs that each subgroup has. And so, you know, I try to do that dance between diving in deep, you know, into the micro detail, and zooming out, you know, to more universal.

I did design two intensive services, one for ADHD, and one for autism based on, you know, over 20 years of experience. I think people like to be their own special project at times. You know, when I do evaluations and there's a 20-plus page report with graphs and something, some clients are like, "This is like a research paper on me. This was so cool." You know? And they love it. And some are like, "I don't care. Just give me a, you know, can I take medicine for this? What's the diagnosis?" You know?

So, you get the range, of course. But I used all of that information, and I want to play it to their strengths. And like if we did a deep dive, what do we eliminate? We eliminate remembering appointments and having to make follow-ups, and sometimes they're calling and scheduling, and all of that is a barrier. And we can get it done and get it all booked out, and schedule. We can do deep dives, longer conversations. People can be tangential in their conversations and be somewhat round about in their language style. And some of them are aware of that, and some are not, and that's fine.

And sometimes they say, "Did you get what you needed?" I'm like, "Yes, I will monitor and I will get what I need to help you, but you just go, go for it." And so, we have that luxury of time, you know? And they're more regulated in session, because we can relax into the two hours, or three hours, or whatever it is, versus ready, set, go. It's like in 50 minutes or less, right?

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, no kidding. A 50-minute appointment is so antiquated. You know, we've formulated it for insurance purposes and reimbursement purposes from a medical model, but humanistically, like, it just doesn't fit. You know? It's just, again, one of those things that just doesn't fit in the box. And, yeah, I'm glad you're offering things like that, because it gives people permission to really drop into sessions too, right? Because sometimes in 50-minute sessions, you're like, you spend the first 20 minutes just dancing around whatever's happening for you. And yeah, it's tough.

And as a therapy client, I'm the worst. I'm always looking at the time out of my peripheral. I even told my therapist this week. I was like, "So, it looks like we're at time." And she was like, "Oh yeah, we are." So, yeah.

VINITA MENON: Yeah. And so, that is a load that you carry, and it kind of deletes the experience, right? So, makes it less impactful. So, we're intentionally a private pay practice. We're intentionally a hybrid practice. You know, sometimes clients want to be camera off.

You know, earlier in my career, I was all full time in-person, you know, pre-pandemic. And post-pandemic, I've never looked back. I've stayed virtual, even though I do have an in-person office, and I go there periodically as well. But if I changed anything on my shelf, or if I move furniture around in my room, that would be enough to just regulate some clients. And would have "wasted" the time adjusting to that, you know? And so, I have, whether it's in-person or virtual I have the same background, and we don't worry about it, you know? Clients are really amazed at the momentum that they get.

And going back to my school psychology training, I love being part of a team. I don't mean to be the one and only therapist for your entire life, you know? I love dropping in, doing my part. And you can go back to your favorite social worker, the therapist you've had for 10 years. There's a comfort level there, absolutely.

So, when I was in Costa Rica recently presenting, that's what I said. You know, let me do my thing with ADHD and autism. Let's hyper-focus on that, get them some momentum, and they can come back to you. There are so many perimenopausal women that, you know, this is their first attempt at therapy that something's really off. I have to figure this out, you know?

And I think a team approach has always been, I've loved working with special ed teachers, and speech and language pathologists, and OTPT, you name it as part of a school psychology team, you know, a building team, and a multi-disciplinary team at the hospital setting. And I wanted to recreate that at Thrive Collective as well. So, my co-founder and I were very intentional about, how do we recreate that in a way that helps the family feel safe, and supported, and not like a push/pull, you know, amongst because they're really vulnerable. So, that's pretty sacred to me. I want to be very careful with that, so and respect that.

PATRICK CASALE: I love that. Well, it's honestly a great wrap-up and transition into that, because I think that sounds like a really intentionally, well thought out program, and I know a lot of people are already benefiting from it, and will continue to. So, yeah, thank you for sharing that. It's awesome to hear.

VINITA MENON: [CROSSTALK 00:31:41]. Thank you so much. And I have to say, I've been looking at you on screen, but I've also been looking at Anthony Bourdain.

PATRICK CASALE: You know, it-

VINITA MENON: [CROSSTALK 00:31:52] you got to make it to Vietnam. I did go to the restaurant where Obama and Bourdain had a [CROSSTALK 00:31:58]-

PATRICK CASALE: That's a dream scenario for me. That's probably a 2026 thing, just my 25 is booked up, but it's definitely Vietnam and New Zealand were tied neck and neck for like, top of my list. I'm going to New Zealand on Tuesday, so top of my list is now Vietnam. But yeah, that painting behind me is actually a charcoal painting from an artist in South Carolina, and he drove it up to my house and brought it over. But I was watching him do charcoal paintings of different Bourdain scenes, and I messaged him and said, "Could you do this specific scene?" He was like, "I don't see why not." So, yeah, one of my special [CROSSTALK 00:32:33].

VINITA MENON: I think it's amazing. It's so well done. And even just the facial expression, just everything. So, beautiful.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, it's special to me.

VINITA MENON: So, yeah, we're opposite. My 26th goal is Australia, New Zealand. So [CROSSTALK 00:32:52]-

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:32:52] retreat in New Zealand, March of 2026.

VINITA MENON: Damn. [INDISCERNIBLE 00:33:00] family wedding first.

PATRICK CASALE: So cool. Well, tell the audience where they can find more of what you are doing?

VINITA MENON: Absolutely. So, Thrive collective has its fancy website, and handle on Instagram is @thrivecollectivepsychology. The coaching practice is called The Thrive Mind. Also, on Instagram, and thethrivemind.co for the website. So, we are ready for you if you are ready for us.

PATRICK CASALE: Love that. We'll have that information in the show notes for all of you to have easy access to, with all the links. And again, thank you for making the time and coming through jet lag, and all the things that have happened. So, I appreciate you being on here.

VINITA MENON: Thank you. I would have been even better at two in the morning today, but here we are. So, thank you so much for the opportunity, and I loved our conversation.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, likewise. To everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice podcast, new episodes are out on Saturdays on all major platforms and YouTube. You can like, download, subscribe, and share. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. We'll see you next week.