Show Notes

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Shaelene Kite discuss how special interests can spark innovative business ideas. Shaelene shares her journey from DBT group practice owner to launching a Disney-themed clinical conference, blending her passions and love of Disney with her entrepreneurial path.

Here are 3 key takeaways:

1. Leverage Your Special Interests: Don’t be afraid to let your quirks and passions guide your business ideas—unique interests can lead to more fulfilling ventures.
2. Start Small and Let Ideas Grow: You don’t have to launch big right away. Pilot your ideas, gather community feedback, and iterate as you go. It’s okay to take incremental steps.
3. There’s No Shame in the Pivot: As Patrick and Shaelene both mentioned, passions can change—and that’s okay. Give yourself permission to evolve, try new things, and not get stuck in one mode of practice.

More about Shaelene:

Shaelene (she/her) is a 4x entrepreneur not limited to her work as a counselor, yoga teacher and practice owner. She leads a group practice of 20+ that has continued to grow rapidly since its opening in 2018.

Shaelene is a DBT Expert and Trainer, Yoga for Trauma Educator, International Speaker, and owner of Rebelmente-a mental health training and consulting company. In 2024 Shaelene launched The Rebel Minds Learning Collective, an all inclusive DBT training membership supporting providers in becoming kick ass DBT therapists. Shaelene also co-created the groundbreaking program Stabilize and Scale with her business partner Katie May in order to help visionary group practice with the business side of running a thriving practice.

Shaelene is also a Disney lover who blended work and play with her clinical conference, Clinically Ever After.

• Instagram: instagram.com/rebelmente
• Conference Website: rebelmente.com/disneyonline

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Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to All Things Private Practice, joined today by my good friend, someone who would say that she's my mentor.

SHAELENE KITE: And be correct, and be correct of that.

PATRICK CASALE: Shaelene Kite, who is the owner of DBT South Jersey, which is a group practice for DBT in South Jersey, obviously, the owner of Rebelmente Coaching and Consulting, and probably just butchered that.

SHAELENE KITE: I'm sure you did.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, group practice owner, international speaker. Now, event coordinator, because she has her Disney event that she's going to talk about, because we're going to talk about special interests today and how they impact your business decisions.

Also, co-founder of Stabilizing Scale, along with Katie Keats May, a yoga instructor, and a Linehan certified DBT trainer. I don't know how many other things should I list? Are there any other things?

SHAELENE KITE: I mean, probably, but I think that's good for now. We can stop there.

PATRICK CASALE: People are already like turning this episode off.

SHAELENE KITE: Seriously.

PATRICK CASALE: So, Shaelene, you're now tied with Gabrielle for the number of times you've come on the podcast. This is number four for you. So, welcome back.

SHAELENE KITE: Thank you. I'm excited, four times [CROSSTALK 00:02:17]-

PATRICK CASALE: Four times.

SHAELENE KITE: …again.

PATRICK CASALE: The first time I met you was on here, and it was when I thought you were a 50-year-old woman.

SHAELENE KITE: That's right. Actually, you thought I was 45. You thought I was 45.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, you had a lot of physical ailments going on that day. And I was confident in that. Anyway, okay. So, I actually like this topic. You mentioned just using your special interests to kind of help guide in terms of creating alternative income streams, aside from being a one-on-one therapist.

So, I know for you, you recently launched an idea born out of one of your special interests, which is like all things Disney, which really makes me so angry to be your friend and-

SHAELENE KITE: Full of joy and-

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, that was what I was looking for.

SHAELENE KITE: …lightness.

PATRICK CASALE: Yes, tell us about how that comes about for you, because I do think, like in all seriousness, a lot of you listening, and myself included, you are pushed to create the things that you feel excited about, that you feel a lot of passion around. And I know that makes it even more of a win-win when we are able to tie this into our professional career, and development, and identity. So, yeah, tell me how the Disney event comes about.

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, thanks for having me on again and for chatting about this. Just before I logged on, I saw some therapists that I know locally posting about, like, what are some other ways that we can make money as therapists?

And so, yeah, I'm always happy to share ways to do it and ways to do it in a way that, hopefully, feels fun, and exciting, and motivating. And that's kind of where the Disney conference came to be.

So, I am not somebody who grew up as a Disney person, but, you know, like, watched movies and stuff like that, didn't have really the opportunity to ever go to Disney much until I was an adult. And there's just a lot of stuff that I can appreciate about it. I think, like, from a vacation standpoint, but also, I think Disney really does nostalgia really well. And that's a feeling that's like, kind of hard to find. Like, what things bring up nostalgia?

And so, I started going like more often as an adult. And this year, went to an in-person clinical conference in Virginia Beach, and on the way home, I was just kind of like feeling really nice and lit up from all the people and all of the connection. And we had like six hours to drive home. So, in that time, I was like, I wonder if anyone would ever come to a conference in Disney World? And just kind of got things rolling from there.

But I will say, when you were talking about it, trying to mix these two things, like what you're excited about, and try and find ways to make money off it, it's really cool. And I'm really grateful for it. And I wouldn't say no to it. But it is like a blessing and a curse when your passions become your profession, because you kind of lose a sweetness of that, when your brain is always like, "All right, well, this is cool. I figured out a way to monetize this. This is a new stream of income. I don't have to do more sessions." Or whatever other thing that you're doing. But now my special thing is changing into work, so I just want to add that, like, disclaimer as we go into it.

PATRICK CASALE: No, I think that's a good disclaimer. I know when my wife has had creative ventures of, like maybe making earrings or whatever other ideas come into her brain randomly, and she pursues them, I'm always like, "We should monetize this. We should create an Etsy shop. We should get it on Shopify." And she's like, "No, I want this to be fun. I want this to just be something I'm excited about."

And I do think that when we start to intertwine them, it is a really cool feeling to say, like, okay, as a therapist, I didn't really think this was a way I could make money in my career, and… Like, it's also now work. And it's about trying to see the both and, and, like, have an appreciation while also acknowledging that, you know, there's also stressors that come with turning your special interest into your alternative income stream.

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, there is a Billie Eilish song. I can't remember which one it is right now, but the lyric is things I once enjoyed just keep me employed now, things I'm longing for someday I'll be bored of. And I don't know, like, I can really relate to that.

I think, from an ADHD perspective, it's like, you know, needing new things to keep me excited and interested. And so, who knows? Like, I think for now, it's really fun. I think giving yourself permission to lean into what feels fun and figure that out later if it's something that you're going to keep doing, if it's something that you're going to keep growing, because that's the other thing that comes with it, once it happens, right?

Like it started as, okay, it's going to be this conference, and there's going to be 40 people. Now, it's much bigger than that. It's doubled in size. And now there's an online event. And so, now there's this whole other… it's not its own business yet, but it's like this whole other arm of the Rebelmente brand that's getting built up. And again, really, really cool and awesome. And, you know, like, we'll see what happens if that keeps going in that way because of those struggles, you know?

PATRICK CASALE: Yep, and I think that's a big part of, you know, for those of you who are ADHDers, let's just say, like whether you are ADHD, whether you are AuDHD, or whether you have ADHD traits, the interest-based nervous system is a part of the ADHD experience. So, pursuing the things that are interesting and exciting, that light you up. And those things may exist today, and they may not exist tomorrow, or it may be a year from now.

And I think that's important to give yourself grace and permission around that to say, like, for now, this feels really exciting. And I don't know what that's going to look like long term. Like, you know, I've pretty publicly stated on this podcast and elsewhere that I'm really pivoting a lot in my career right now, and it can be a weird place to be.

And one thing for me is like the retreat component of my journey, like never what I thought that I would be sitting here saying, like I'm about to do number 20 and 21 over a four-year period. And then, go to New Zealand and do 22 and 23. And then, have nothing else planned, because what ended up happening is my love for travel and passion for it, and these new experiences, and the connections, and everything that came with it, because it grew so rapidly, it really pushed me to way beyond my comfort zone in terms of burnout and capacity. And that was a reckoning point sometimes.

But for you, I think this is like the start of something really exciting, because I know how much you have a passion for this, despite your many attempts to get me to come to this event, and me shooting you down.

SHAELENE KITE: I think you secretly want. You actually do secret really want to be involved. I'm going to show everyone the text messages that we have where you make these little comments about, like, "What if I dressed up as [INDISCERNIBLE 00:09:23] and nobody knew who I was?" And I'm like, "You want to come. I can tell."

PATRICK CASALE: I just want to speak like, because I'm like, there's an ego there, in a way. But no, I don't want to come, even though my wife is attending for whatever fucking reason.

SHAELENE KITE: She is attending.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. She was like, "I'm going go to Shaelene's event." And I'm like, "Okay, cool." She's like, "Do you care?" I'm like, "No, I don't care." [CROSSTALK 00:09:43]-

SHAELENE KITE: It's like the biggest honor. I'm like, Patrick's not coming, but his wife, who is not a therapist, is coming to the Disney conference. It's like, this is a hell of an event. I'm so pumped.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, and you should be proud of yourself. I got a lot of behind-the-scenes messages from you about, like the fear and the anxiety of the pricing, and how do I navigate A, B, C.

And, you know, I think that is a really important piece of all of this in the creation process, is for all of you listening, like to have a couple of people to bounce ideas off of and share these concerns with and these fears. But you also, at some point in time, have to really stand in your vision and like, own it. And I think that's what I try to tell you when I get the flurry of messages.

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah. I mean, you know what it's like? I don't know. We met when you were… I remember being at a brewery with you when I was in town in Asheville, and we met up, and you were like, "Yeah, I'm going to have a retreat in Ireland." And I was like, "That sounds fucking crazy. Like, is anybody coming?" Like, you know?

PATRICK CASALE: Do you have anyone that's going to actually sign up?

SHAELENE KITE: I mean, and not in a doubting way. But like, in the way of, like, holy shit, that's a big deal. And nobody's doing anything like that.

And I could feel that, I don't know, anxiety. Like, I could feel that from you and talking about it. It's incredibly scary to, I mean, any business venture. Like, I look back at all those things that you named, every one of those at some point had some level of fear, right? Like, is this going to work out?

I remember signing the lease for my group practice. When I signed it, it was for five years, and I was like, "Damn, like, I hope we make it five years." Like, that's huge. Like, that's your first step going into a five-year lease. That's terrifying.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely.

SHAELENE KITE: And now, you know, those things don't feel like that anymore. But when you keep pushing yourself, and if you're going to take the risk to put something out there based on, you know, one, because there's a need in your area. You see yourself filling some sort of gap that's not being filled, or because you're just really excited about something, and you think, like, hey, maybe this could be a good idea.

You might think it's a great idea, but the reality is, is like, it could suck. You might be the only one who's pumped about that. And so, putting yourself out there. And then, you know, also the financial risk that comes with putting an event on, you know, you're on the hook for a certain amount of money. And so, it is really scary to… If you're holding a retreat, if you're holding a conference, or an event, or something like that. And it's scary because it's new.

So, I mean, I think, like, yeah, for all of those different reasons, it's really easy to start getting into, like, the nitty gritty of, should I do it like this? And what do you guys think of this copy? And how do I do this? And all of these things.

And I think, you know, you're totally right. And I would say for listeners to really pay attention to, like, get feedback, but don't lose what your vision is. And remember that, ultimately, this is your thing. And so, you want to be able to say, like, whether it sucked or it was great, this was what I wanted. And I'll go into it. And I'll learn. And I'll figure things out and stuff. So, you're not supposed to get it all right on the first time anyway, but not getting so caught up in everyone else's opinions, because it's easy for that to kind of take you off track, too.

PATRICK CASALE: 100%. And like any feedback I could have given, aside from just support, would have been like, influential in some ways, you know? Like, if I was really, like, "This idea is terrible, Shaelene. Like, nobody is going to sign up for this." That would have really altered, maybe, how you felt about that.

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: And I think it's important to know the kind of feedback you're asking for, and, again, to stay, like, pretty anchored into what your vision is, and try to combine the two.

And in reality, I think you were like, "Do you think I could really sell these spots?" And I was like, "I absolutely do think you can sell these spots." And then, now in the group chat that we have going on, you're like, "I'm adding 35 more spots." Or however many was. And then, you said now it's two.

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, yeah. It's a crazy thing. But at the same time, I think that this, and, you know, I've talked about this at different events that we've done together, because they're often very entrepreneurial-focused, if you see somebody go out there and do the thing that you were thinking of, you're going to be pissed that you didn't go and, you know, try and do the thing. I'm sure I'm not the first person to have a clinical conference at Disney. I'm sure it's happened somewhere before.

And, I mean, that's not really, like, super important, but I think that that's one of the things that people really chew on a lot, and they get stuck in freeze mode of not doing anything, as like, well, you know, "Will anybody come and am I…" I think that was our first podcast, actually. Now, is like, do I have anything meaningful to say? Do I have anything different to offer?

PATRICK CASALE: Yep.

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, but there's something about... The different thing is you, the different thing is how you're putting it together. The different thing is the event that you're curating. And now that it's, you know, we talk a lot about, like, building the plane as we fly it. But like, now that I've been flying for a little bit, the event hasn't happened yet, but I have a much clearer vision in what the end product is going to look like and not being as afraid of making changes and things like that. It's easier to kind of settle into, okay, now I can, like, really have fun. Like, how do I want to make things different? Because, despite it being a clinical conference, it's happening in Disney World. So, how do I want to take things that I really love about Disney World and kind of like, infuse that into everything, from the talks to, like, you know how the tables are set up, and just like so many things all the way in between. And that's going to be really exciting and fun.

And I'm really excited to share that with other people who have never been to Disney. Like, that's probably my most favorite part, is, like, people who have never been to Disney are coming to this, and I get to take the little parts of Disney that really are exciting and fun for me, and sprinkle that into this entire event. And that's going to be really awesome.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I think when we are doing anything fueled by our passion, it's going to show up differently than, let's say, if someone else has done an event there. What are you calling it? Clinic?

SHAELENE KITE: Clinically Ever After.

PATRICK CASALE: That's right, Clinically Ever After. So, great name, obviously. All the talk names and title names are fantastic. It's not like we're promoting the spin on here because it's sold out, which is great for you. But the reality is, you did put your own spin on it. You put your own, like, sense of humor and your personality into everything. And that's going to be very different than, let's say, if someone else had a three-day EMDR intensive at Disney or whatever, which sounds [INDISCERNIBLE 00:18:46] by the way.

SHAELENE KITE: That sounds rough.

PATRICK CASALE: That sounds like a rough three days, a lot of processing to do. But I think that's important, because so often, right? And myself included, yourself included. And so many people listening to this are going to be like, "Well, I have an idea for a retreat, or a conference, or coaching program, or a course." Or whatever business idea. And you're going to say to yourself, "But so and so already does it. And it looks like they do it really well, or they're really successful, or they have a large audience. Why the hell would anyone hire me?"

And this is circling back to our first conversation of, do I really have anything meaningful to say? And it really is putting your own personality, and your own take, and your own perspective, because how many of these ideas that exist out in the world are really that unique? And in reality, it's like they're just different versions and iterations of perspective, and experience, and personality. And I think that's what sets people apart. And really, the reality is, like, you're either going to say, I'm going to pursue it, or I'm not. And that's the differentiation in the factor of, like, are you actually going to try to put this into the world, or convince yourself that there's a million reasons why it won't work or won't be successful.

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah. And there's multiple truths. I mean, I think, like, since, you know, 2021, and when you started your retreat way, I don't necessarily think it's like one cause the other, but there's so many right now. Everyone's doing retreats. Everyone's, you know, putting on events and things like that.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

SHAELENE KITE: And so, I do see, I can only imagine, like, because I can see some people on the hustle of posting the same post all the time. We have eight spots for this thing, and wherever, this place, and all of that. And I feel for them, because I know that grind. Like, you know that grind. Like, the stress of selling spots.

And so, I think, like, on the one hand, it's like, okay, don't just sit on an idea and not execute because somebody else has it. And at the same time, that's important. Like, there is a bit of this is important market research to consider. Like, how many retreats are happening in Costa Rica right now? Probably a couple, as opposed to-

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:20:56].

SHAELENE KITE: I thought, right? So, when I think of, like, well, I don't know of any. I don't know one person who's doing something like this. Okay. And then, I think, like those checks and balances can kind of get you closer or further on the spectrum of making the decision. I think the other thing is, like, people get… I see people because I'm thinking about myself at different phases of thinking, like it has to be this big event or nothing at all.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

SHAELENE KITE: A good example, I was thinking about this today, so I was a little late, yes, because I went on a four-mile hike with my five-year-old, which ended up being okay.

PATRICK CASALE: [INDISCERNIBLE 00:21:32] six-year-old now.

SHAELENE KITE: He's six, you're right. Look at you. You're so good. So, we took him on this hike. Didn't realize it was going to be four hours. I mean, four miles took him a long time, not four hours. But anyway, so really into, like, trying to find local hikes and stuff like that. He's into it. So. it makes it easy. But some of this is coming off.

I went to a week-long somatic healing in nature retreat, right? So, this is, like, my thing now is I want to be outside, and I want to take other people outside. I don't want to go camping, but I want to be on trails and all this other stuff. And so, I have these thoughts when I'm there. And it's kind of annoying me, because I'm trying to, like, chill out in the woods and stuff. And I'm like, how can I monetize this? What am I going to do? A retreat? What am I… You know, all this stuff.

And so, I'm thinking about that, and I'm letting it simmer. And instead of like, "Hey everyone, I'm going to do a one-week retreat in nature. And here's what it's going to look like." I'm like, "Who wants to come outside for like 90 minutes and we'll do like a hair of the amount of work that I would do on a full retreat." Like there's a whole spectrum. There's a whole menu to get from doing nothing to having that big thing. Like, whatever that idea looks like.

And for some people, that could look like just, you know, like applying speak at these events, or signing up to go to the event. Like, that might be the one notch forward on getting you to a place where you're feeling more confident, because even if you only sign up, or even if you only talk to people about it, you're growing your little network to help, you know, kind of move further along on that path.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. And it's also, like, growing new pathways in the brain. And like-

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: You're comfortable thinking about it, saying it, having conversations about it. All of those things are crucial. And you're right. I'm just laughing because I'm just thinking of you coming home from this event, and poor Chris. Like, Chris [INDISCERNIBLE 00:23:29] if you're out there.

SHAELENE KITE: Signed us up for this four-mile walk today. Okay, we did great.

PATRICK CASALE: Okay, well, good for you Chris.

SHAELENE KITE: I feel like probably good for any neurotypical partner who's married to like a neurodivergent person, like, "Guess what I'm into this week?"

PATRICK CASALE: Yep, yep, yes. 100%. I agree with that. And I agree with what you were saying. Like, and for those of you listening, like I was in the position too, as we all have been, who have created anything in our lives where we had to start somewhere, whether it was the idea, maybe you didn't even have an idea formed whatsoever. You just had a desire to do things differently, or you were like, I'm bored of what I'm doing, or I don't think I can do this forever, whatever the thought is. That led to some sort of action. That might have meant you went to a summit, or a conference, or a retreat, that might have meant you joined a coaching program, or a workshop, or a mastermind. Like, there's so many ways for that, like, inkling of an idea to start to grow. And the more you surround yourself with people who are doing things, it's like, oh, there are possibilities here.

Because I think for a lot of therapists, still to this day, if you don't have supportive circles, or you don't see other people doing things outside of one-on-one therapy, truly [CROSSTALK 00:24:50]-

SHAELENE KITE: It is hard to break yourself out of that.

PATRICK CASALE: That's all there is in this path. And, you know, for me, I could never do the same thing for the rest of my life. And I envy some of you who can, because I'm like, sometimes that feels like a hell of a lot more of a relief or satisfying or less stressful, to not ebb and flow through the creative process of entrepreneurship.

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, for sure. And I see that in my staff, I'm wondering if you probably see it in your staff too, of like working with them and trying to help them achieve goals or do things outside of one-to-one therapy. And it just doesn't occur to everybody, like it really doesn't.

And again, I think, like for me, over the past four years, my network has grown a ton, and that's because I've put myself out there a lot and put myself in… And, you know, all of these different things.

And, I mean, I think of, like, the people who come to a lot of the events that you've done that I've been a part of. Like, that's a risk, you know? It's a risk going to another country. Many people go and they don't know anybody, so it's like, but all of those are still moving, like, the tick forward, without having to jump all the way in and then be like, "Holy shit. Like, now I'm on the hook for this. And this was terrifying."

PATRICK CASALE: You might come to an event, whether it's mine, whether it's yours, someone else's, and that idea might, like, percolate for years. You might just have a small snippet of an idea and then sit on it for however long because of circumstance, or life, or situations that arise.

And I think it's important, like, not to say that there has to be a linear process to any of this, and there doesn't have to be, like, a timeframe for any of this.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

SHAELENE KITE: But I do think when you are able to, and I'm just going to try to transition us and wrap us up in the best way possible of circling back to saying, like, if you do find ways to marry your special interests or your passions with your career, and that's something that you want to be doing, it is really special. And not to take it for granted along the way. Because, you know, creativity can sometimes be hard to find and access. And I think it's important to just ride the wave while you can and pursue it while you do have the energy, for those of us who have energy spikes and capacity limitations.

So, doing it while you can, while you feel enthusiastic, while you feel excited, I think that's a huge part of this, too.

So, thanks again for coming on and being my mentor/guru, in your words and eyes.

SHAELENE KITE: You're welcome.

PATRICK CASALE: And good friend since we met three four years ago on a podcast, have had a lot of cool experiences and adventures together, you know? And it's been a really enjoyable portion of my life, so I really appreciate that.

But with everyone listening, where can they find what you're doing and what you're offering?

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, so on social media, mostly on Instagram and TikTok, Rebelmente, Rebelmente_shaelene on TikTok. If you go over to my website, you'll see everything that's Disney-related. And for anybody who this sparks interest to or you feel like that could be a fun CE, we do have an online event coming up, Clinically Ever After the online chapter, some really, really cool topics. Sabrina is going to be on there. Patrick, one of your staff. So, I'm really excited about all of the different topics and the Disney spin. So, it'll be a fun way to get CEs online. It's a pretty low-ticket item. You can go to rebelmente.com/disneyonline. And I'll send that to you, where you can put it in the show notes.

PATRICK CASALE: Cool. Yeah, we'll have that in the show notes for Shaelene and for all of you for easy access, so make sure you're checking that out. And thanks again for coming on and making the time, even though you were late.

SHAELENE KITE: This is what Patrick's like behind the scenes, everybody. It's actually worse behind the scenes, you guys. If you think like, oh, Patrick, he's so friendly. I mean, maybe you don't [CROSSTALK 00:29:01]-

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:29:01] that way in my life. Like, supportive, and welcoming, and maybe, like, really able to help navigate some of those things. But I would not use the word friendly, but nevertheless…

SHAELENE KITE: Right, you're right. There's a part of you.

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:29:17]-

SHAELENE KITE: It's in there, it's in there. And we're working on it in our mentorship. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And yeah, thanks everyone for listening. Hope it was helpful.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, hope it was helpful, too. And if you want some of Shaelene's mentorship, we'll put that in the show notes as well.

SHAELENE KITE: I don't do that. We're messing around, by the way. Please don't message me for that.

PATRICK CASALE: All right. To everyone listening to All Things Private Practice podcast, episodes are out on Saturdays on all major platforms and YouTube. Like, download, subscribe, share. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. We'll see you next week.